Atlanta Hawks: Bucks outlook, 2026 NBA Draft pick, Giannis Antetokounmpo, etc. (with Frank Madden)

Atlanta Hawks: Bucks outlook, 2026 NBA Draft pick, Giannis Antetokounmpo, etc. (with Frank Madden)

On today’s show, I am joined by Frank Madden to discuss the Milwaukee Bucks. And if you’re wondering why, we’ll explain that in detail, how they might look this season, the honest factor, and more coming up. You are Locked On Hawks, your daily Atlanta Hawks podcast, part of the Locked On podcast network. Your team every day. Hello friends, welcome to episode 2034 of the Lock on Hawks podcast. I am your host Brad Rolland coming to you on a Tuesday evening into Wednesday. Today’s podcast is brought to you by the folks at Game Time. Download the Game Time app, create an account, and use code locked on NBA for $20 off your first purchase. Terms apply. I also want to encourage you at the top of the show, as I always do, to make Locked on Hawks your first listen each and every day. Check us out and subscribe to the show on Apple, on Spotify, wherever you get your podcast, check us on YouTube, like the video there, and of course, tell your friends about the show as well. In a moment, I’ll be joined by Frank Madden, the founder of Brew Hoop and one of the voices on Locked on Bucks. He’s been covering the Bucks for a very long time and very well, I will add. And basically, people might wonder why I’m talking about the Bucks on a podcast that’s covers the Hawks. Well, there are many reasons, but I would say there’s more focus on the Pelicans, which is probably correct, but the Bucks do the Bucks are a part of this draftbased conundrum the Hawks have. So, the Hawks, whichever first round pick is better between the Pelicans and the Bucks in 2026 as a result of the draft day trade that happened six weeks or so ago involving the rights to Derek Queen, the rights to Asa Newell, and of course, that future pick from New Orleans, that deal that everyone, including me, has praised up and down for the Hawks. But there are scenarios I would say in which Milwaukee does actually send a pick that’s higher than the Pelicans. I would project the Pelicans pick to be juicier than the Bucks pick as most people would, but there are scenarios. Giannis injury, Giannis trade, Pelicans overachievement, all those things that might impact the Bucks because again it’s the better of the Pelicans and the Bucks. So Hawks fans will be monitoring New Orleans probably a little bit closer, but Milwaukee is definitely part of this as well. And then on top of that, I get questions all the time about Giannis and whether the Hawks could potentially trade for him at any point, including right now or during the season or next year, whatever, which we also cover a little bit with myself and Frank. So, that’s why we’re doing this. And without any further delay, here we go with myself and Frank Madden on the Bucks. I am joined now by a person that used to be a colleague of mine in a roundabout way. I believe you were the founder of of Brew Hoop, Frank. Is that correct? Founder. That’s right. I was going to say I I I can remember your name from Peach Tree Hoops. Um, so yeah, it’s funny how how these things come full circle, but it it’s been nine years since I last wrote anything about basketball. I’ve been basically a full-time podcaster, at least in the sense of my my hobby of following the NBA. But yeah, locked I started Brew Hoop many years ago, 2007. Um, and started Lockdown Bucks in 2016. So almost 10 years of doing that, which is kind of crazy. Yeah, I am the only ever host of Lock on Hawks as well. So, we’re still kicking at this point. A couple OGs. That’s right. Back to box explanation style. But anyway, uh that’s not why we’re here. Even though we could talk about that for a long time if we wanted to. We won’t do that. Um I explained before I brought you in a little bit of why we’re talking bucks on a Hawks podcast in August. It’s a little bit of an odd topic, but it does matter. Um I I’ll start here and we’ll dive into all kinds of things. Um, I think you agree with me on this, but I’ve said that I believe the Hawks are likely to get the Pelicans pick and not the Bucks pick when it comes around in June. Would you share that sentiment as someone who observes the league? Yeah, and I’ll I’ll frame this as saying u you know, it was kind of a running joke with Nate Duncan when I used to do the Dundon season outlooks that like I was one of the few people who would pick the under on my team that I covered. Um, so I like to think I’m fairly level-headed about uh the Bucks and I, you know, especially I’ve look I I got to see this team win a championship. So, you know, my the rest of my life is house money in a lot of ways. Um, and so I I think I have a relatively uh, you know, reasonable view of of what this team is and and isn’t. Um, I I do remember, you know, in the afterlow of draft night, you know, I think Zack Low saying like, “Oh, anytime a Bucks pick gets moved, you gotta gotta keep your eyes on that.” you know, um, but I would agree the fact that it’s a 20 25 26 Bucks pick and not, you know, a further out Bucks pick. You know, they owe their 29 to the Blazers. Um, and, you know, pretty much don’t control their draft for the rest of the decade, which not great when, you know, given given for reasons that we’ll I’m sure we’ll get into. Um but you know I think even with this team I think you know the last couple years I think obviously were indicators that this was team was not the contender it was you know during the kind of peak days with Giannis and Chris and and Drew. Um you know I’ve kind of my my my head in terms of like where I think this team is and you know then we can compare it to the Pelicans a little bit but in my head I feel like this my my guess of this team is like maybe 43 wins. I think that’s pretty close to the overunder. I think it’s maybe a slight under. I think I’ve seen like 43 and a half. Maybe some higher overunders have been floating around as well. That’s kind of where my head’s at. And um it’s not to that’s not because I don’t have optimism about some of the especially some of the like younger mid20s guys on this team or you know I think Miles Turner is a really nice fit you know really kind of resetting the clock on the kind of Brook Lopez style of of rim protector and floor stretcher that they had. Um, but you know, you weren’t an awesome team with Damen Lillard and you just lost Dame Lillard and again I think Miles Turner, you know, especially perspectively is is going to give them more than than Brooke did last year at least. And I’m a big Brook Lopez defender, supporter, etc. But, you know, I think kind of the time was coming. But yeah, I mean, I think kind of where the Bucks are, it’s really hard to see them contending in a meaningful way absent another big move, which at this point would have to be involving their 2031 unprotected first. So, digging a dish further. Um, so yeah, I think, you know, again, there’s a lot of guys that I’m I’m I’m excited to watch. I think this team, you know, should be kind of like fun in a way that maybe it wasn’t the last couple years just because Dame dictated obviously the style of play that you played in terms of play being slower, more half court um and being a little bit more kind of taking turns um with Giannis and obviously defensively dictated kind of how you had to play a bit defensively and some of the limitations. Now they don’t again like of course you’ll take healthy Dame Lillard over you know Kevin Porter Jun Ryan Rollins. Um but I think they can play maybe a more coherent sort of style around Giannis this year. Um and you know if Giannis stays healthy um then I think it could be a fun year in a like less pressure sort of type of environment. Although you know anytime you have Jiannis on the roster there’s going to be pressure. um you know whether it’s coming from Milwaukee, not always the case, but certainly um kind of in the macro sense, right? You’re always sort of on the clock when you have a guy of Giannis’s talent level. Um so that brings a bit of maybe some baggage in terms of like pressure and all that. Uh but yeah, I think they’re going to be solid. You know, I think if they make a top six slot, I think that’s a pretty good result for this version of the team. Is there some version where they could be top four if everything breaks right or they’re able to, you know, take Koosma’s salary and perhaps, you know, that that 2031 pick and turn it into a more productive player? Uh, sure, it’s all possible, especially with this version of the East. But, uh, but yeah, I think expectations, let’s say, are certainly the most modest they’ve been in Milwaukee from a wins and losses perspective. you know, really going back to the last Jason Kid year is the last time I think that when I think they actually did win 43 games. Um, it feels like we’ve kind of gotten back to more of of that, you know, version of the team in terms of like how competitive they can be, which, as you were alluding to, I still think puts you ahead of the New Orleans Pelicans. Yeah. Especially given the difference in conferences and the competitiveness that those two teams are going to be facing in their respective conferences. This show is brought to you by Game Time. Have you ever decided that the last minute you actually want to go to go to a game with your friends or with your family? Maybe it’s already game day and you realize suddenly you actually want to be in the stands that day. That’s exactly where game time comes in handy. 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Again, create that account with Game Time and use that code. It’s L O C D O NA. It’s locked on NBA for $20 off your first purchase. Terms apply. Download the Game Time app today. Last minute tickets, lowest price guaranteed. And this isn’t everything. I mean, and I think they would even acknowledge this, but our friends at FanDuel, of course, we talk about FanDuel all the time. And I think the Bucks are 13 or 14 wins higher than the Pelicans coming into the season and overunder win total. I don’t know if the gap’s that big, but it’s it’s considerable, I think. And it’s also, not to really get the whole thing, but it’s also this weird spot where Hawks fans, like if the Bucks have a good season, it’s like, all right, shrug. They only care about the Bucks if the Bucks have an implosion season, you know what I mean, to some degree. Um, which I think is plausible. We can maybe come back to that. Um, particularly when it comes to Giannis. And we might I might I think we’ll probably close with Giannis talk because that’s actually interesting too. Um, but before we get to that, I mean, you referenced a few things I wanted to ask you about. You know, not having Dame is obviously a big deal. You know, the Bucks have some interesting talented guards. You know, Kevin Poor Jr. is very polarizing. He can score all that stuff. Ryan Rollins, I thought was a steal for what they got him for. That’s that’s someone who doesn’t cover the Bucks every day. That was a great deal, I thought, for Milwaukee. Cole Anthony, not the biggest fan, but like a guy who can play like it’s a reasonable buy low kind of on him. Like, is that is it basically those three guys? I know AJ Green’s going to have a different player. I’m sure he’ll play in in that court, but is that the plan for replacing Dame’s production? I know there are different players, but like how are they going to go about doing that? Because that’s obviously other than Miles Turner, it’s kind of like the big new thing is like Dame not being there. Yeah. I mean, what you saw last year was kind of Rollins was for a while kind of thought of as like the best sort of caretaker point guard option for them just because um especially when they had before they traded Chris Middleton and they had more of the playmaking be able to kind of funnel through Giannis and Chris, you didn’t necessarily need as much playmaking from your league guard and and Rollins I think really, you know, as you were alluding to, really, you know, emerged last year as just like such a good two-way guy. you know, both him and Porter are like really big like, you know, stocks guys. And I think Porter is like definitely more much more of a gambler, I would say, defensively, but I think both guys, especially compared to Dame, are certainly, you know, much more capable defensively, much more versatile defensively than than certainly Dame was. Um, I think, you know, what you saw as the season wore on, you know, KPJ kind of got more and more of a rhythm. I think got more of an understanding with Giannis and you know I mean he was a scrap heap guy basically when they acquired him at the deadline. They had expressed interest in him a year ago during the summer and a lot of people in Milwaukee thought that they were going to get him going into last season before he signed with the Clippers. And I remember when that trade happened like I remember talking with um you with Eric Name who used to be my co-host on Lockdown Bucks. used to write with me at Brew Hoop, now an amazing, you know, the best Bucks beat writer over at the Athletic. And we were kind of talking like it’s like, well, Marjon Bochamp wasn’t really doing anything for you, but KPJ had an extra year with the player option, which given how he was playing in LA last year was kind of like, oh, like Bucks really taking the flyer, like they didn’t get anything, you know, for for taking that extra year. And of course, you know, by the end of the year was sort of a no-brainer for him to opt out and and get a bit more money from the Bucks this year. Um, so it’s it’s it’s definitely an interesting kind of mix of guys. You know, I think, you know, Doc’s gonna have some flexibility because, you know, none of those guys obviously have like an existential claim on being the starter, right? Like it’s gonna be a competition. Um, all of them certainly have arguments. Rollins is, you know, kind of the most roleplayerish. Also was uh, you know, shot the ball from three really well last year. Porter really came around shooting the three ball once he came in Milwaukee. weirdly. Um I think it was in his maybe I can’t remember if it was his last year in Houston or the second last year he led the NBA and spot up three-point percentage and was like over 40 the other year. So he was like a surprisingly good three-point spot up guy. Um but wasn’t really shooting a lot of threes early last year and kind of when he came to the Bucks was kind of struggling and definitely doesn’t look like the way he shoots it doesn’t look like a guy you know who’s like you know shooting with tons of confidence but the ball really started to go in. also weirdly good at drawing three-point fouls the way he kind of kicks his legs out. But um but yeah, they have some options between the two of them. That’s sort of what we saw last year. KPJ eventually claimed that starting spot when Dame was out at the end of the year. They win eight games in a row. I think they were 16 and eight without Dame last year and Dame had a negative onoff differential which was I don’t really know what to make of that but to me that’s probably you know from an analytical perspective like the most interesting thing to sort of monitor this year is you know Dame’s first year when I don’t think he played as well as he did last year you know the Giannis Dame combination was actually quite good I think they were plus 10 together the starting five with Dame was like plus 15 it was like the best net differential of like a starting group of any team in that first year but like there was something kind of off at the same time. And then last year it seemed like they were actually better, but the numbers really didn’t bear that out. Some of that was because Andre Jackson Jr. played a ton of minutes as a starter and like was the only guy who was a negative with Giannis and just I think he got actually too long of a leash from Doc. But um but yeah, it’s sort of an interesting thing because it’s like on paper you say like well hey like they weren’t actually very good when Dame was on the floor last year strangely enough as good as Dame is. Um they played really well without him at the end of the year. they were able to play like more fast-paced, more kind of defensively chaotic. You know, they had a lot number of games where they played in kind of a two-3 zone where they’re able to kind of do a lot of ball hawking between Trent and um and KPJ and Rollins um and be, you know, more of a defensive playmaking team, which they have not been at all. They’ve not been a turnover forcing team for ever basically. Um so it’s it’s going to be interesting qu you know question to see kind of how that works out. Cole Anthony, as you mentioned, you know, like a guy who can get buckets, but never been a super efficient guy, like has sort of survived defensively, but not a great defender, not as good as those two guys. Um, but just another option, you know, another kind of club in the bag. Doc loves golf, so I guess that’s, you know, an apt metaphor. Um, so it’s going to be interesting to see how they kind of balance that out. Um, with just all these young guys, like seems like everybody’s like 25 years old in the back court at this point or in that range. Rollins is actually younger, but um my my personal guess is that Porter is probably and and some of the comments from Doc and Horse have sort of suggested that KPJ is probably like the most likely guy to start. And I mean, it’s it’s like pretty scary on multiple fronts when, you know, you’re really relying heavily on Kevin Porter Jr. to be like a volume scorer and playmaker for you. Um, but he’s probably the has the highest upside. I mean, like he’s been a 19 point per game scorer in the NBA. He’s never been as efficient as he was last year with the Bucks. So, I think that’s something to monitor. Um, but, you know, again, like they need these guys to basically overachieve relative to what they’ve done in prior roles. And so, they have this, you know, very kind of, again, I I think they have good depth, but who’s their number two option, right? Like that’s the question. Like I don’t like there’s literally like five guys that could all be the the second leading scoreer on this team and like you know I think you could easily guess like nobody thinks it’s going to be Koosma although he’s the only other guy who’s actually scored 20 points a game in the NBA. Um so they’re in this kind of weird spot. Um and it’s going to be a lot of you know by committee type stuff but you know they have good front court depth with with Turner. Bobby Portoris is, you know, when he’s not suspended is always basically healthy and available and goes and gets buckets. Um, and has developed a good, you know, rapport and chemistry with Giannis, stretches the floor. Um, and you know, they have, I think, some some more line of versatility than maybe they’ve had in previous years. Although the small forward spot, I mean, is kind of a huge question. Like I I guess Koozma probably starts just because like they don’t have any better ideas and they want to resuscitate his value. But, you know, if he struggles the way he did in the playoffs, then that probably won’t last very long. So, yeah, I mean, they’re they’re an interesting team. Certainly, as somebody who covers the team, it’s going to be a different kind of year. Um, I’m excited to see what, you know, Gary Trent, AJ Green, who I thought, you know, were really good towards the tail end of last year as well. Um, kind of dueling banjo shooter guys who do things slightly different ways, but, you know, can each bring things defensively as well. Um, I hope those guys can, you know, carve out, you know, 25 minutes per game this year and play regularly. But uh but yeah, you know, there’s just no guarantees and certainly, you know, if Giannis gets hurt for, you know, with a serious injury, like all bets are off and everything kind of comes into play. Yeah. And you know, if this was uh lots of Bucks discussion, we’d go I would go I have lots of things I can follow up on. I’m not going to do that. Um, but there I will say looking at the roster and kind of knowing it already, but also being refamiliarized in early August, it’s like there are a lot of guys on this team that you recognize. Like old Palatoran Prince, this is the Hawks podcast. So old Paltoran Prince is like fine. Like he doesn’t he’s a he can shoot. That’s kind of all he does now. Leading catch and shoot three-pointer in the NBA last year. Brad, he’s a good shooter and he and by the way, nobody nobody no Bucks fan was excited when he got resigned. Yeah, I mean that that’s exactly the Tory Prince experience. I mean, um, they bring in Jericho Sims, who I kind of like like Gary Harris is on this team. Like, they have so many I like AJ Green. It there’s a lot of guys, but you you bring it up like a lot of uncertainty. Obviously, I think Miles Turner is second best player on the team, but not really a second option offensively. It’s not really what it does. Um, Koozma, I actually had to write something for something else about K about like bounceback candidates, and I I kind of made the case Koozma could be better. I don’t really believe it, but he was so bad at times last year. It’s like, can he be worse? I think probably not. Um, I don’t mean to pile on because he used I mean, he in Washington was like very unserious, but he actually put up like like you said 20 points a game for a couple years in a row in Washington. And it’s a weird team. Um, I say all that to say, Giannis being there, you you already gave kind of your overall, but I have this basic theory that like if Giannis is healthy, they can only be so bad. Like even if even if everything goes wrong, Giannis is so good that like what’s the floor if Giannis is reasonably healthy? Let’s say Giannis plays 65 70 games. What’s the floor for Milwaukee if he is healthy and there all year long? Yeah, 35 wins like is it like I don’t know that 35 was exact. I I hadn’t really given it a ton of thought. Um but 35 was the first number I thought of as you were kind of teeing up that question, Brad. Um I think that’s probably a reasonable figure. You know that for better or worse they’re not that dependent on any other single player, right? Um so you know if Kevin Bour Junior’s hurt then it’s like okay Cole Anthony and Ryan Rollins are playing and you know is that a huge downgrade? It may not be a downgrade at all. Um with Green and Trent you know you’ve got again are these number two option type of like big-time scorer guys? Like no of course not. Um, but I think we saw last year that that they actually can be in lineups that that are really successful. Um, and even together, even though they it doesn’t seem like you would play those guys together, it seems like they would be more of like like for like, you know, substitution guys, like they actually played a ton of minutes together. I mean, the Bucks best lineup was basically those two with KPJ in kind of a, you know, like a three guard type of of lineup. Um, and and with actually with Giannis and and Bobby Portoris generally. So, um, so yeah, it’s it’s an interesting kind of group and, um, you know, I think the theme of the last couple years for me was not that those teams should have been competing for championships, but it always just felt like those teams were less than the sum of their parts. And I think obviously you have to look at Doc who I’m I’m not as like low on Doc as some people. I mean, some people, you know, obviously like a lot of fans just hate their coach, you know, unless they’re a championship. Y um I think Doc has his virtues. I think managing egos in a locker room I think is something he does well. I think he stabilized the team, you know, when he first came in. Um you know, I think for all the noise last year when they had the slow start, he kind of kept the ship together, managed, you know, sort of the Giannis Dame relationship. I mean, again, those are two very good guys. They’re pros pros. Like, it’s not like those guys are coach killers or something like that. So, you would hope that that that would be manageable. Um, and to his credit as well, I mean, he started playing these young guys that, you know, supposedly Doc Rivers hates young players, but you know, guys like Green, um, and Ryan Rollins and, you know, even KPJ’s sort of like resuscitation of his career happened under under his watch. So, on the one hand, I think, you know, Doc is, you know, has has some things that that he’s good at. Um, but it just felt like, you know, even you look at last year defensively, like they were totally solid. They were slightly above average defensively. They led the NBA in three-point percentage and for most of the year they were basically like an average offense. And it’s just like you had the highest scoring duo in the league with the NBA. You had a bunch of role players that shot threes around them and you couldn’t somehow create a good offense out of that, you know, which was to me that was probably the most babbling part about last year’s team and really prevented them from being, you know, anything more than than kind of what they were, which was, you know, that kind of outsiderish, you know, battling for home court but then don’t get it type type of team. So, you know, we’ve seen Doc, he’s coached lots of different teams. He’s been around long enough. you know, the Clippers post Blake, I guess it was like there were some he’s coached some like kind of frisky teams that maybe were not as talented as some of his sort of contending teams. So, I think he’s got he he’s shown an ability at times to kind of figure stuff out and certainly last year at the end of the year when they were without Dame, they like I said, they played their best basketball to end the season winning eight straight without Dame. So maybe Doc can kind of figure that out and, you know, maybe they can kind of play a more more coherent style where they’re not trying to, you know, always kind of trade off the Giannis and Dame stuff in ways that that aren’t ideal. But again, like, do I trust that Doc Rivers is going to fully optimize this version of the Bucks that is not as talented as they were the last two years when they didn’t win 50 games? No. I’m not going to make that leap either. So I I think the the downside I think Doc is probably like a you know floor razor type coach in a lot of ways when you don’t have an incentive to lose. Um but he also I think brings the ceiling. So you know yeah 35 wins maybe 43 is like the target. Is there some scenario where they could get to 50? I doubt it, you know, but again, I think to do that, you’d probably have to put, you know, that that kind of lone future unprotected pick into play and kind of make a big swing or, you know, again, like I’ve spent lots of time looking at who’s who’s got salary that can match for for Kyle Kosma. Um, and again, like I it’s probably not something that’s going to certainly put you into a legitimate contending type of place. Um, you know, unless the the Joe Jares decides he doesn’t want Trey Murphy anymore. Um, but he clearly doesn’t really value uh unprotected Bucks picks the way he put that one into play that he sent to Atlanta. So, so I don’t know if the 2031 will will sway will sway him either. He probably won’t be around to use it regardless. But, uh, but yeah, so I think this team obviously has a ceiling. Um, and me as someone who’s going to watch every game and, you know, obviously hope that things go well, there’s definitely some things that I think it’s going to be interesting to watch. Um but yeah I mean it is a different sort of era here now in terms of you know expectations. This is brought to you by open phone. If you’re running a business you know every miss call is money left on the table for you potentially. Think about the last time you actually had an urgent need perhaps for a plumber or a service provider. If they didn’t answer the first time did you actually wait or call them back? Probably not. You probably moved on and that’s why you need open phone. Open phone is the number one business phone system. And it’s built to stream streamline and scale your customer communications all from the same app on your phone or your computer. Open phone also lets you manage your business calls and texts from a single app. And the shared inbox feature is a game changer for you. 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Um I have to ask what you think about the whole saga. Like it’s I thought we put this to bed. I thought Giannis was going to just be fine and be there. And maybe that’s the case and you follow this close this closer than I am. But it’s two-prong. Number one is like if he’s not on the team, the pick becomes more interesting this year. And then number two is, and you know this, like Hawks fans have been dreaming about Giannis as a team that trade for Giannis as well. And I don’t know if the Hawks want to do that. Um, we’ll see, but I I have said, and I wonder what you think as someone on the other side, I think the Hawks, if Giannis became available, which he I don’t think is currently, um, could make a very reasonable offer. They have lots of stuff to offer. Um, including a former Wisconsinite, Jaylen Johnson, potentially. So, uh, I say all that like where are you at on the, uh, on the Giannis meter right now? What’s going on in in your head compared to where, uh, ESPN won’t let it die? I know that much. Yeah. Um, I mean, ESPN’s been talking about it since, you know, the 2019 Eastern Conference Finals, basically talking about, you know, Giannis doing. So, it’s just kind of comes with the territory. At this point, you know, there will always be Giannis trade talks, probably so long as he’s he’s in Milwaukee. Um, and I’ll say this, too. I’m not offended by being asked. Of course I know you’re not being offensive. There there are Bucks fans there. Yeah. But but there are Bucks fans that I mean I get it. Like if you’re a fan, it’s not fun when the the only reason your team is being talked about is in the context of your best player like potentially asking for a trade when he hasn’t done that. He never has. Um and it’s all very vague and you know the sourcing is is sort of unclear. It’s part of why I didn’t want to leave with that. I I wanted to talk about the bugs for 20 minutes and then we’ll we’ll do this last and talk about and for for those listening I told Brad like I’m happy to talk about this. I I’m not like I’m not disgusted by this or like offended or whatever. Um so yeah, I mean so I think I’ll say a couple things. One, I came into this summer my kind of mental I mean I’ve said this on our podcast I I thought it was 6040 he’s going to be back. That was definitely the lowest optimism I’ve ever had going into an offseason that Giannis was going to come back. This is like the first time I’ve ever felt like, okay, there actually may be like a credible chance that that he would ask out. Um, and I think to be clear, if you’re the Bucks, if you’re John Horse ownership, you know, you cannot trade Giannis. Like you cannot be the one to go to Giannis and say like, “Hey Jiannis, I think probably be good.” You know, he’s the best player in franchise history. He’s meant everything to this city, this franchise. He’s won a championship. you know, he is minted. He is the prodigal son, everything, right? Like, yep. If if he’s, you know, doomed to a derk-l like end where the Bucks just sort of like, you know, kind of screw around and are like a fringe playoff team for the next three, four years, and he never gets another shot at the championship. Um, it is what it is, you know, to me. Like, I I I as a fan, like I’m okay just kind of going down with that ship. Um, and it, you know, again, I I would love for him to win another championship in Milwaukee if he were ever to get traded. I would absolutely root for him to win a championship elsewhere, you know, and I don’t do that with a lot of other players. Um, but he deserves that. He’s been amazing and, you know, there would be no hard feelings if if he ever kind of decided to do that. Um, so there definitely was more uncertainty, I think, and and you know, I’ve talked to other people kind of in the orbit of the Bucks who I think shared that sort of similar view of like we think he’s coming back, but who knows, maybe this is the year that something changes given his age, given where his contract is, given that the team is, you know, you can’t sort of trick yourself into believing things that maybe you did a couple years ago when he signed the extension after the Dame trade, which to me in a lot of ways validates, this is my glass half full, The Dame trade almost validated itself. It was like in some ways you could say it couldn’t have gone worse. It got Yiannis to sign another Jiannis sign. Yeah, exactly. Which if he does, who knows if if if that Terry doesn’t happen, you know, who knows who knows what kind of happens there. Um so that’s kind of the I think the background on it. I think um I think the other thing I would add to is like in terms of like if Giannis got to the point where you know like and look, does Giannis think he’s going to win a championship in Milwaukee this year? I doubt it, right? Like Sham’s like making it seem like, you know, Giannis is evaluating stuff day by day and trying to figure out if he can content. Like I don’t think Giannis is like that delusional. I think Giannis probably just like wants them to sign his brothers, which I think is going to by the way, if I if I was betting, I think that probably happens, you know, on like a Friday afternoon news dump. Um, and and why not? I mean, also like I I’m all I’m all about nuance and like every everything matters. I do believe that. But if that’s the cost of doing business, you just you just do it. Who cares? You know, it is it is it is what it is. A lot of Bucks fans have kind of uh you know, debated that over the years. But um I get it. You know, it is what it is. And and and the the other side too of this is and I think it’s so interesting that Dame goes back to Portland because first off, I think if we want to talk about like the psychology of of Giannis, right? And I won’t claim to obviously like know Giannis person or how he thinks, but I think being in the orbit of this and talking to people that know Giannis and all that. Like I don’t think New York or LA is like some magical thing that he lusts over. I don’t think he would lust over going to a big market. I think if he if he wanted to leave, it would be to prioritize going to a place where he thinks he can compete for a championship. I also don’t think he would want to go someplace where he is like could be perceived like KD was when he went to Golden State. I think, you know, he does not want to be like the second banana or the like mercenary guy. I think I love Giannis. He’s amazing. You know, he’s a team player, but he also has an ego. I think he wants to be the best player on a team. I think that’s partly why he’s in Milwaukee now is because he kind of relishes the idea of being point Giannis and having kind of the entire Bucks system revolve around him and showcase kind of his talents this year. I think that’s sort of fun, probably fun for him and not something he can necessarily do, you know, on other teams with better players. Um, so I think he would want to go someplace where he can win a championship. And you know, I think coming in the summer, I probably would have looked at Houston as like the best sort of candidate team because he definitely would be the best player there. They definitely needed him. They have a ton of stuff they could trade to the Bucks and they also like could have been good enough to compete at a really high level even after giving up a lot to the Bucks. Um, but the flip side with Houston, the one thing you would say going against Houston in this sort of scenario would be they are still in the West, which if you’re trying to win championships obviously is is not a selling point. So I think, you know, when I if I were going to make like a short list of teams where again caveing this, I’m not trying to run Giannis out of town. Sure. Um, by the way, it was really weird. I acknowledged like I I was on some podcast with with Yosi Goslin and we were talking about how like you know there’s a scenario where if Giannis demands a trade like you know maybe the Bucks end up being like just as good off or better over the longer term because you know they’re not going to win a championship with him in the next couple years if they get a bunch of reload like you know maybe that works out okay for them. Again never have I said the Bucks should do that. I would not trade Giannis unless he demands it. Um but you know, life could go on if if that’s what he wanted to do, right? Um and again, it would be very difficult for the Bucks given where they are with draft picks and all that. Um they can’t tank in the way a team normally would in this scenario if they were to lose Giannis. Um but I think if you’re looking at teams that could kind of credibly sort of meet those requirements that we’re talking about, I mean, the Hawks are probably as good a candidate as any in the in the Eastern Conference. you know, I mean, he might like to go to the Knicks in sort of the abstract, but I don’t know. That’s also like kind of a different sort of situation to go into. I don’t think they have great sort of trade assets to give the Bucks. Like, do the Bucks want Cat, you know, and a couple picks for him? Like, I don’t think that really then they’re basically, you know, the Timberwolves of, you know, five years ago or whatever. Um, so I think yeah, I mean I think Atlanta actually has like some kind of credible options in terms of of trade angles for this. Um, what should Giannis be worth in a trade? I mean, I don’t know how you value him, especially Yeah. I mean, I don’t know. With two years left on his deal, I mean, everybody, you know, Bucks fans will obviously look at like the Go Bear trade, the Mitchell trade, like these trades as sort of analoges and say like Giannis is better than those dudes and those dudes got like insane amounts of value. um you know or the Paul George trade right with with Sheay which of course you know Shay wasn’t Shay at the time. Um so I don’t I again like what is enough for Giannis I don’t know right like how many picks do you have to put in? Obviously the Hawks don’t have like the cash of picks that that some teams do. Um but you know with the likes of Jaylen Johnson by the way he went to my rival high school so you know I’d have to Oh I did not know I mean obviously I know he was from the up there but I did not know that. Yeah I’m I’m Homestead High School. at least from the town over Nico. But but um but yeah, I mean like they at least like on paper, right? Like when you talk about Jaylen Johnson and you know obviously like then we starting to get like okay you have Risa Sha obviously like Prospecty um and you have obviously other pieces that you could kind of tack on around that again like is that making you whole for Giannis? No, of course not, right? Like you’re not going to go compete for a championship in the next few years with what you get out of that trade from the Hawks. Um, but you know, again, like I think honestly I don’t think Giannis would go to the Bucks and say just trade me. Um, because I think he would be worried of going someplace where he just kind of, you know, is on a team that can’t win there either. I feel like nobody does that anymore. And then I mean, look at Dame, right? Like Dame ended up actually on a very good team with the Bucks with another superstar. Um, but it didn’t work out. Then he just went back home to Portland and said, “Yeah, I mean any player on Giannis’s level, and we don’t have to keep going on this, but I think every they’re not gonna just go ask for it’s gonna be a trade with here’s my list, you know, or like, hey, don’t send me to I mean, and and the Bucks to to your point earlier about not wanting to trade him at all.” The Bucks are not going to suddenly turn around and say, “All right, we’re sending you wherever we want to send you.” Like that’s not going to happen. Let’s be practical. Obviously, they can. There’ll be somebody in the comments that says, “Well, they can do whatever they Yeah, obviously we know they can do whatever they want, but they’re not going to send him to pick your Sacramento. That’s not gonna happen, you know. So, uh, no, I mean, I’ve staunchly resisted doing like, hey, let’s do a let’s just figure out what’s going to cost. I don’t want to do that. My only point with the Hawks would be if he’s available, and again, he’s not right now. They have a reasonable offer to make. They have players and they have a couple of tradable picks that they wanted to trade him out. And to your point, Giannis would could at least reasonably look at Atlanta and say, “I can win there.” It’s not a perfect situation. I’m not saying that the Hawks are the only team that could trade for him, but they kind of check all the boxes if you want to look at it that way of like would have enough left over for Giannis to be like, “All right, I can win here.” Big enough market. I don’t think he cares about that that much, but it’s a it’s a good good size city. And then also, they have the stuff to offer. That’s kind of it. And it’s the Eastern Conference. And I agree all these guys, especially Giannis, why would you want to go to West if you were Giannis? Like I don’t know why you would in a vacuum. Maybe it was a person situation. So it’s worth talking about, but I have like purposely and not just to not offend people like you, Frank. I’m not I’m not just holding out for Bucks fans. I just won’t I won’t do like the deep people always like what I I’ve answered mail questions about it before. I’ve done segments about it, but I’m not going to do like the twohour here’s what Giannis is going to be cost to the Hawks. Like if he’s available, if he’s actually available, then we’ll ramp it up. But like for now, it’s like, you know. Yeah. it. I I don’t think, you know, the Hawks are probably going to be it’s going to be a productive use of time to be spending, you know, trying to dream up Giannis offers when he hasn’t asked out. And no, it’s also it’s just it’s August. People are bored. It’s fine. I mean, the Hawks, it’s so funny. You’ll appreciate this is someone who’s been creating podcasts and blogs in forever. The Hawks had this like by all accounts awesome off season that everybody’s excited about, even nationally. Like, they’ve gotten attention nationally that they haven’t gotten in years. And then because it it got quiet for like two weeks, people just start itching. It’s like, all right, what’s next on the agenda? Yeah. And it’s like, well, they had an awesome off seasonason. We have you already forgotten. It’s it’s only August 5th. Like, they just did a lot of stuff. They got Porzingis and and Alexander Walker and all this stuff in one summer, and now it’s like, what else are they going to do? It’s like, well, they pretty they’ve been pretty busy so far. Yeah. Let’s let’s see if this works, right? Which, you know, like that’s I think the Hawks are I mean, you know, interesting to be talking Bucks and Hawks, right? Because there is, I think, sort of this implied like, okay, is this finally the year, right? Certainly the consensus would be that this is the year where the Hawks, you know, finally get over the hump perhaps into at least at least to some Yeah. I mean, I certainly think they are the best they’ve been since they met the Bucks in the conference finals four and a half years ago, since the paths last crossed um in the Eastern Conference Finals. But, you know, is this the the year where the teams kind of cross each other in the standings again um for the first time in in a long time? you know, certainly could happen. Um, you know, I think it’s it’s I mean, the Aces, I think, is just really interesting because like other than Cleveland and probably New York, I mean, I’m look, I think the Knicks are certainly going to be better than like a team like the Bucks. And I I’d have a hard time betting on anybody else. Maybe there’s a scenario where like Orlando, maybe the Hawks, like, you know, if like Mike Brown just doesn’t work for whatever reason with with that roster. Um, but you know, beyond those two teams, um, yeah, I mean, there’s just so much flux. I mean, like you’ve probably looked at the Celtics roster. It’s just like, oh my god, like what what is left Celtics? It’s like crazy. Like, what what are they going to have two years from now when Tatum’s back? Like, it’s just kind of they’re they’re clearly resetting. And I mean, they went and traded they went and signed Chris Buché today as we’re talking on Tuesday. And that actually he’s like maybe their best player. Like, yeah. Uh, it’s a weird Yeah, you’re right. So, and the consensus I think you look at FanDuel odds, whatever you want to look at. Cleveland’s kind of in their own mini tier. New York’s kind of the next one and then it’s yeah, it’s some combination of Orlando, Atlanta, if you’re a big believer in Milwaukee if you’re a big believer and a couple other teams. Like, I get it. Um, and yeah, Boston falling way down. I think Indiana, while they’re going to be competitive because they always are, like they’re going to fall down like they kind of have to without Hallebertton and Turner. Like, they’re not not the same team. Miami, I don’t really believe. So like yeah, it is open and that’s part of the optimism for the Hawks. It’s part of why to bring this full circle like the Bucks can still be a top four five team in the East even with this kind of very clearly flawed roster because they have Giannis and they have depth and this the East is wide open. So and I think this and I should say too, you know, we referenced Dame and sort of Dame dictating to an extent how you have to play on both ends. I think going from Brook to Turner also, I mean, your base defense, right, you’re still going to be at your core a drop defense. You still have, you know, a a 3 and B stretch big in Turner. Um, but I think Brooke, especially, you know, last year, you know, his inflexibility in terms of the way that they kind of were able to match up and sort of play style. I mean, on the one hand, like you’re never going to look at Turner and be like, “Oh, he’s a switch anything big guy or something like that, right?” Like, he’s not a versatile big like, you know, a like an Aong Woo or something like that, right? He’s certainly much more of a Chris Forzingis type type of guy. Um, but I think he certainly can play in more versatile ways than than Brooke can. And, you know, I was always like a Brooke over Bobby Portoris guy, but it’s like you look at like the playoff onoff numbers for those two guys. I mean, it it hurts my soul to see how much worse they were with Brooke in the playoffs, really the last like four years. Um, and especially the last two years when I think the Pacers were just really bad matchups for the Bucks. So, I think in a lot of ways, as much as I love Brooke, you know, the kind of time had come to be able to replace him with a guy who still brings a lot of the kind of positives on both ends that that he does, but without like some of the inflexibility, um, or at least a little bit more flexibility. Um, I think certainly helps. And I and honestly, I think the Bucks also just probably needed like a they needed a shakeup to an extent. Obviously, you didn’t want the shakeup to come at the expense of Damen Lillard’s Achilles. Um, but I think, you know, if if there’s a version of this team that can suddenly be more than the sum of their parts, unlike the last couple years when they were less than the sum of their parts, it probably needed, you know, to go away from, as successful as it was, to go away from Brooke being the lockedin starting center every night. And again, he was super durable, so he was always there. Um, so yeah, I I I’m I’m definitely really, you know, interested. I mean, this is how people like us sort of get out of bed and cover 82 games a year of not always great basketball for, you know, for me now, uh, what has it been, 18 years? A long time. You’re a little bit younger than me, maybe. But, um, not you, you started probably around the same time, right? Like, weren’t you? Yeah, a little a little bit after, but not much. Yeah, I was I was at P I was at Pe at like 2011, 12. So, yeah. So, I mean, we’re sickos, right? Um, so we find we find reasons to get excited and talk about these things in, you know, August and September every year. Even when, you know, like you guys, I think Hawks fans, I think, have, you know, a good reason for for some excitement, Bucks fans, you know, maybe were being a bit more defensive and less optimistic. Understandably. Yeah. But, you know, yeah, I mean, even if I don’t think this is like even if I’m not as high on this team, I’m I’m still really looking forward to seeing what it’s like. I hope Giannis just puts up absolutely monster numbers and sort of drags this team to, you know, the four seed and, you know, gets himself a chance at another MVP. That would be a super fun outcome, even if, you know, the ceiling of this team is like the second round or something like that, right? So, um, but, you know, three straight years out in the first round, like maybe I’ll I’ll take a second round exit at this point. Yeah, it wouldn’t be the worst thing in the world. Um, no, it’s it should be interesting. Like, we’re both on record. I think the the the Hawks are probably rooting more against the Pelicans than the Bucks if we’re being realistic, but um it’ll be interesting to watch. The Hawks will be watching the Bucks all season long for various reasons. I I I I hope and I would guess that these teams will be following each other more so because they’re hopefully being competitive in the standings and not because the Hawks are curious about where their pick will end up. No, I think I think the same thing. As long as as long as Giannis is upright, I’m I’m pretty sure that’s going to be more of the case, you know. Um, the only real down like big downside scenario is if Giannis and I never I would never root for an injury and I I really like Giannis. So like you know that’s that’s where it’s going to be. I think they’ll be battling maybe in the standings and um I covered their NBA Cup game last year in Vegas and that was a fun one for the Bucks, not the Hawks necessarily, but uh well Frank, I won’t keep you any longer. I appreciate you doing this. Um we talked about it before you brought brought you in, but if you would plug anything you got going on. I know people want to follow the Bucks now if you’re a Hawks fan probably this season. though. What can I do that in your ameritus whatever ameritus role you’re still in? Well, yeah, I I I probably do I’m probably on about once a week on Locked on Bucks with uh with Camille Davis and and Justin Garcia who are awesome. And um we’ll probably be doing a mailback here pretty soon. But yeah, I tweet at Fmadden NBA. So, um I like to think I provide relatively levelheaded Bucks takes. So, if if Hawks fans are looking for some, you know, fairly level-headed and uh maybe not overly frequent uh tweets uh about the Bucks, uh feel free to to give me a follow. And um yeah, hopefully uh Brad, for my sake, I hope in like six months we’re not talking about like, oh man, so what do you think about that Bucks pick inevitably uh conveying this year? I hope. Yeah, I might have to call Yeah, if if something goes wrong for Milwaukee, I I will apologize to you and then I will probably still ask you to come on the podcast uh talk. Hopefully we’re talking hopefully we’re talking doing a second round playoff preview next spring. Let’s shake hands on that, Brad. That’s what we we’ll all root for next year. I would uh that’d be way more fun for sure. But yeah, if you if people look, I am level-headed to a fault. So if Hawks fans follow me and listen to the podcast, they probably would enjoy your brand of analysis on the Bucks, too. It’s it’s somewhat similar. Anyway, so thank you, Frank, for doing this. I appreciate it. Hope it wasn’t too much torture. As for everybody else, please subscribe to Loftton Hawks. Follow me if you want to and we’ll see you all next time.

Brad Rowland (@BTRowland) hosts Episode 2034 of the Locked on Hawks podcast, and he is joined by Frank Madden (@fmaddenNBA) of Locked On Bucks. Topics include the 2026 draft pick owed to the Atlanta Hawks from either the New Orleans Pelicans or the Milwaukee Bucks, how Milwaukee projects in 2025-26, the overall situation with Giannis Antetokounmpo, potential trade winds, and much more.

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