Making goals for EVERY NBA TEAM this season 📈 + Are the Rockets TITLE READY? | The Hoop Collective

Making goals for EVERY NBA TEAM this season 📈 + Are the Rockets TITLE READY? | The Hoop Collective

Hello and welcome to the Hoop Collective podcast. We talk about the NBA, which we’re doing on Wednesday afternoon. Altering our schedule up a little bit this week because uh got some stuff going on. Um joining me from San Jose, California, Tim Bunmps. Hello everybody. And joining me from Dallas, Texas, home on the range is Ban McMahon. Howdy, partners. Nobody loves tears more than Tim Bontemps and he loves to roll out tears in the summer and I’m having fun with him, but actually he has a very good story with Kevin Pelton that uh published today. This was a Wednesday. Notice that actually, McMahon, huh? So, did you notice that actually threw in there? Yeah, Bob. s I would replace it with surprisingly. Also bad that Kevin Pelton clearly carried you on this one, but go on B. Uh Wendy. Yeah. Um anyway, uh I actually like this concept and I think it’s a good thing to look at at this point in the calendar. Um the NBA all-in tiers. In other words, how allin are some of these teams? And considering that we have seen multiple teams cut guys with hund00 million on their salaries, um, multiple teams trade complete control of their drafts for the foreseeable future away, some both. Just so just so people are clear on what exactly the the parameters of the story were. It’s not necessarily all it’s it’s the the idea was to break teams into groupings of what what version of allin they are and like what are you all in on? That’s right. That’s the that is the that’s the conceit of the story. What are you all in on? There’s a different you know not every team not every team goes into the season thinking they’re going to win the title. So what is basically the objective? It’s not hard to figure out what the Utah Jazz are all in on, for example. Um, it’s not on winning the West. Um, it’s on, well, it’s on winning something else. Um, okay. So, uh, I like this story as much as I tease Bonds. Um, uh, I don’t tease Pelton. I have too much respect for him. But, um, he’s just not as fun to push around either. Yeah, he’s you know you pro. Well, I’m not even gonna he’s a robot. Bontimp is really irritable. You can get get under his skin pretty easy. Well, the thing is like you know Bontemps is like 65. You can’t stuff him into a locker. Pelton, you know I can metaphorically. Listen, Bontemps has won fights. I’ve seen it. There’s a YouTube out there. That is true. That is true. All right, let’s start with the first tier, which is all in on winning a championship before their window closes. Tim, take it away. Uh, yeah, had we had we had three teams in this tier, Denver, Milwaukee, and Minnesota. And interestingly, two of those is like, hey, you’ve got perennial MVP candidates that are midway through their prime. Obviously, Joker, Giannis, whereas, as you point out in here, the Bucks, uh, I guess Ant is ascending towards MVP candidate status. Hasn’t quite gotten there yet, but, you know, an ascending superstar who’s not even hit his prime yet. So, it’s it’s it’s interesting that the Timberwolves are in that same tier despite the fact that the face of their franchise is at a very different stage of his career. Some of these teams are a little hard to fit into a clean grouping together. Uh Brian does not like too many tiers. Didn’t really want to get into trying to have 30 different tiers. He would if he could though. I just wanted to be clear. For example, I would say, you know, while I understand what M Milwaukee did this summer, I don’t think many people would truly say the Bucks are a championship contending team with their uh with their current roster. But again, if you’re trying to look at it through the prism of, you know, trying to get this done before the window closes, obviously the Bucks have been on a timer for a while now, which is why they made what I think we’d all agree was a fairly desperate maneuver to wave and stretch Damen Lillard and a record amount of money to go sign Miles Turner as a free agent. as it relates to Minnesota. The reason why we ended up having him in this tier and why I pushed to have him in it is this team is still very reliant on Rudy Gobear and to a lesser extent Mike Connley and those guys are in their mid to late 30s and there’s not clear replacements for them. Despite the fact that they drafted Rob Dillingham a year ago, I’m not convinced Rob Dillingham is the long-term answer to replace Mike Connley. And despite the fact they paid Nasreed $125 million this summer, I’m not convinced Nas Reed is a long-term replacement for Rudy at center either. Well, I’m not convinced of that. I think that if there’s a long-term replacement at center on the roster, then it’s the guy they just drafted the fellow Frenchman, Johan Baron. Um, but he’s, you know, he’s a springy 7 foot ball Clay at this point. Yeah, I mean, he he certainly showed a lot of potential. He had the seven block game at summer league against the Pelicans, but you know, I think we’re a little ways away from being able to re reliably say he’s got a chance to be that kind of player going forward. The window is very defined for Denver. It’s as long as Joker is one of the best players in the world, assuming that his future is in Denver, which I think is still a pretty solid bet. The window is very defined for the Bucks. That’s as long as Giannis is one of the best players in the world and on their roster, which is much murkier. The window’s not so well defined for the wolves just because Ant has so much runway in front of them. But, you know, can they kind of to your point here, how much more time do they have left with this supporting cast and then can they kind of recreate or reconstruct a supporting cast while Ant is, you know, still ascending? Could I pull off onto a Bucks conversation here real quick? Yes. Miles Turner’s contract. Uh, four years 104 million. Was it 1078? Actually, I think that Let me let me get to the Bobby Marks Mobile. I think the final numbers actually came in a little bit even higher than was uh originally. Yeah, I think it might be 112. Let me do some quick math while you’re talking, Brian. Okay. So, I’d like to apply our um our uh strate Can that contract be traded? Yeah, I believe so. Okay. McMahon, again, every contract can be traded. Can Can they flip that for value? I think that’s probably going to be a little bit more difficult. 108.8 million over four years. I would say Miles Turner, as we saw last year in the playoffs, although he struggled in the finals, has a skill set as a three-point shooting big who can protect the rim that is uh desired around the league. And I think they could if they decide to like at some let’s say Giannis a year or two from now says, “I’ve had my fun in Milwaukee. I’m ready to go.” Uh, as long as Miles Turner is healthy, I think they could flip that deal and get some value back for it for a team that’s trying to win right now and want somebody with that skill set. Like, for example, he would be a nice fit on the Lakers right now. He would be a nice fit on the Warriors right now. He would be a nice fit on I mean, he could I mean, again, we’re just talking the Wolves. I mean, sure, Phoenix Phoenix doesn’t have anything to trade, but like longterm, he could be a potential long-term answer to replace Rudy Goar in Minnesota if they’re trying to do something with that in a year or two, right? Like he has a skill set that should age decently and that’s not a it’s an it’s an inmarket or it’s a within the realms of the market contract. Here’s why I’m asking about that right now. Bon temps, you and I were live on national television when we found out about Dame Miller’s wave and stretch to sign Miles Turner. Facts. And um I in the moment, literally in the moment, I said it’s like mortgaging your mortgage to buy a sports car. Um I still don’t like it. Uh, but as I’ve talked to people across the league and thought more about it, um, while I don’t necessarily think it’s the primary reason, I think that maneuver was an elaborate hedge on what Giannis wants to do. And here’s why I’m saying that with a month of reflection and talking to people in the league. Um, yes, ideally what you want is Giannis to return, be fully bought in in the season, have a guy who fits alongside him, um, that can that can stretch the floor and protect the rim, that’s a lot of value. Um, and however you structure your team where you have whether you have Giannis playing point uh forward or point center or whatever, um, and it’s you sending a message to Giannis that we scrape the bottom of the barrel. Um, you know, John Horst, he gave an interview to the athletic Eric name, and I I think what he said was, um, have we done enough to keep Giannis? I don’t know. Um, have we done everything that we possibly could do? Yes, we did more than anyone else could ever have done that. Which to me was an indication that number one, AD didn’t necessarily have Giannis sitting next to them when they did it. Even if Giannis endorsed the move, it wasn’t like something that they were doing alongside him. And certainly it wasn’t like Luca calling Marcus Smart up multiple times, right? Two, John Horse wants it on the record that they did everything that they possibly could do. I mean, that’s already kind of inherent. So why why does he want them to know that? Well, I think because the Bucks can try to do their best here with Miles Turner and having waved Dame Lillard. But the other thing that is important here is that you can’t wave and stretch somebody after what’s the date bonds? August 31st. Uh yeah, the end of August. So if at the at some point in the next year you trade Giannis and you start a rebuild, you can’t really start a rebuild with Dame Lillard on your roster. Yeah. Because he has no trade value as a torn Achilles tendon owed $und00 million. And you can’t wave and stretch him in January. So you you wave and stretch him now and then you use that money to acquire an asset that you can either play or you can if you have to trade. And you do that so that if you have to go a rebuild route, it’s the off-ramp is exists in a way that wouldn’t exist otherwise. and you send the message that we did everything we possibly could so that if so that the ball is in Giannis’s court. Yeah. I I wouldn’t say you you can’t start a rebuild with Dame on the roster. And I mean you would just go about it in a different way. He would then be a giant expiring contract you could then use to uh you know maneuver things around for people. But then you’re in the tax. Remember they get out of the tax with this maneuver, too. I I Yeah, I I understand that. Um though I think they might have been they were probably going to duck the tax anyway after not resigning Brook Lopez. But um yeah, look I I understand like having Miles Turner is both a way to show Giannis that you’re still trying to win and he is a guy that if they do move on from Giannis in the next year or two, there’s a lot of teams he would fit on. I was just glancing through the standings and you could probably come up with 10 different teams pretty quick that Miles Turner would be a decent fit on and it’s a reasonable contract. It’s not out of bounds with what the market was going to be for them. So, I I do think that the Bucks could walk away with an extra asset or two. They are going to have dead money on their books for a long time, but like we’ve talked about before, they’re not Phoenix, which is a place that freed in theory going to want to go. cap space is not as much of a thing in Milwaukee and if they move on from Giannis, they’re going to be in a pretty lengthy rebuild anyway. So, well, and and they’re going to be in a rough spot to rebuild because um as they’ve continued to try to put a contender around Giannis, they’ve obviously given up a lot of their picks. And so, like the Damen Lillard deal, which hey, I liked it at the time. I liked them taking that swing. The results stunk. It is what it is. There was some misfortune in that, but the simple fact is they owe a ton of money to Dame for now years to come and they still owe picks for Dame. And that’s a really really rough spot um to to be in a potential rebuild. But this is this is what you do when you have this kind of a talent that is, you know, the Bucks haven’t had this kind of a talent since Kareem. And no matter what happens, whether Yiannis spends his whole career in Milwaukee or whether he asks out tomorrow, the Giannis air in Milwaukee has been a massive success. To bring a championship to Milwaukee, to have um this kind of run with a, you know, with a multi-time MVP has been a massive success, but the post Giannis stretch in Milwaukee is going to be painful. There’s just no way around that. And you can call this a hedge against it, but it’s it’s not going to be a smooth transition whether you know they have whether it’s Giannis retiring down the road or whether it’s uh you know in the in the near future. Well, I’ll never forget when I as I get older, I keep getting these sayings. And if you think I’m getting too heavy on these sayings, um, tough. But I once had this arborist come to my house. It’s one of the things you have when you’re a homeowner. You have to have arborists come. And I was talking to him about planting a tree. Oh, no, you don’t. No, you don’t. You don’t have to do that, buddy. You don’t have to. Sometimes you do. Sometimes people Some people have arborists come to their house. Let’s just Well, when you live in a neighborhood where if trees fall on your power lines in your house, you sometimes have to have arborists. Anyway, this arborist provided me with a with an important saying and I I said he says, “People often ask me when the best time to plant a tree is.” And the answer is last year. And so this is what I say. I say, “When’s the best time to begin a rebuild in the NBA? last year. Uh or or I hear what you’re saying or but or the worst time like if you have Giannis Milwaukee, you run that out for as long as you can. No, I agree. But when independent of Giannis, when it comes time for a rebuild, Yeah. you know, the first part is the hardest part. So, if you can if you can hedge, then you can then hedge. Yeah. The Oklahoma City Thunder are the only team that I can think of that was able to have a head start on a rebuild. Yeah. It’s Yeah. I just think we’re being a little charitable saying it’s a hedge when they they have $112 million in dead money on their books. Well, as they’re as they’re trying to figure out whether they should do that deal, that maneuver, you know, you had to think about all angles of it. It wasn’t something done flippantly. Okay. Of course, I do think that of on this list that we have, we’ve just scratched the surface on here. Um the the Timberwolves being in this, you know, putting championship window closing in the putting the Timberwolves is one of the more interesting things you’ve done on this list. And you know, you explained why because they’re they’ve got core players who are old and they’ve mortgaged their draft, but and and the the biggest question there is the point guard of the future. And I I agree with Bondims. I don’t know that it’s Rob Dillingham. They made a huge bet. Tim Connor made a huge bet on Rob Dillingham to be the long-term backcourt mate with Anthony Edwards. I think I think Rob Dillingham is a lot more Lou Williams than Chris Paul. and Lou Williams had a great NBA career, quality player, but my point is I think he’s an undersized bench bucket getter um and not a a run your team point guard. Well, the San Antonio Spurs, which is who they made that that deal with for Dillingham, um their picks have been used on three point guards in the last two drafts and um three guards. And Dillingham is not like the other two. So that’s, you know, that’s if you had one of those two guys, Dylan Harper, um, Stefan Castle, you would maybe feel a little differently. Okay, the next tier on the all-in list here, teams that want or are focused on being allin on having an extended window. So the opposite of getting near the end, teams that are trying to make sure their window stays open for the longest time. Um, the defending general think I’m making a shocker here. That’s what the defending champs are doing uh with the Thunder. But who else is on this list? Bon Temps. Yeah, the Thunder obviously are the epitome of that. Uh as are the team that’s I think their biggest challenger in the West this year potentially, the Houston Rockets. Even though they just traded for Kevin Durant, they have a team built around young guys with a bunch of draft picks that can extend that window out into the future. And then it’s the three teams that should be sitting at top the Eastern Conference this year, the Cavs, Cavs Corner, uh the New York Knicks, and the Orlando Magic. all of whom have uh all of their core players under contract for multiple years. all of whom have cores that are somewhere in their mid to late 20s. uh that should have some extended window together and frankly also benefit from the fact that they’re in the Eastern Conference and there’s just a cavernous vacuum at the top particularly with Jason Tatum and Tyresese Hallebert and sideline with injuries uh with their torn Achilles for this season and that inherently gives you a lot more wiggle room to have an extended window than in the very brutally difficult Western Conference. Yeah. So, I had a I was talking to an executive the other day and um he was saying to me, he goes, “What are the great rivalries in the game today?” And you know, I’m like, “Boy, is this an August question?” You know, you know, you come up with some. And uh he’s like, “Well, I know what the next great rivalry in the NBA is.” And I go, “What? I’ll I’ll bite what?” He goes, “The Thunder versus the CBA.” Um, you know, because the way that they maneuver to keep this What’ you say, Bontos? I don’t even think that’s true. I was going to say I I like Prey’s odds on that one. Go on. I mean, they’re not they’re not even going to be in the repeater tax till the new CBA comes online in 2030. So, you know, I You’re de you’re declaring it already over. I I just think they’re I mean, look, they’re not in the tax. They weren’t in the tax last year when they won. They’re not in the tax this year when they could win again. and they have a ton of flex. Yes, they have the three guys on, you know, Shigos Alexander, Jaylen Williams, Jed Homegrren on max contracts going forward. However, they have draft picks out the wazoo to have young cheap talent around them. They have great contracts on their books otherwise and they have flexibility on their higher price veterans, namely Lou Dort and Isaiah Hartinstein, to maneuver their books around that way. So, I don’t I think they’re better set up than any other team, frankly, to deal with the CBA because they have all this young talent already, which is why it’s a rivalry. I mean, I think I think it’s more for the Cavs and the Knicks and the Magic and these other teams, right? But none of those teams are the champs. Well, but I I agree with Bontims in the sense of Presy and the Thunder are going to have some difficult decisions to make, but those decisions are going to be, you know, fourth, fifth, sixth spots on the roster, not one, two, and three. And, you know, we’ll see how things work out long term in terms of like, hey, is there a is there another deal to work out with with Lou Door with Hortonstein when those uh come around? But they have so many picks to be able to uh you know backload there. Like the the guy they just drafted from Georgetown is a potential Isaiah Hardenstein replacement. We’ll see if it comes to that. Center from Georgetown. Yeah. We we’ll see if it comes to that. Like Kase Wallace. Um and and you know some of the decisions might end up being on on guys that they hit on in the draft. like, hey, if Case Walls keeps uh the trajectory that he’s that he’s on right now, you know, he’s going to be positioned for a pretty good payday. But again, they’ve got an MVP who’s just hitting his prime, an AllNBA player who’s couple years away from touching his prime, and Homegrren a lot of people might value even more than Jaylen Williams, who also hasn’t touched his prime. I mean, those guys are locked up long term with a ton of flexibility around them. Best odds against the CBA. Of these teams that you have listed here, Bonts, only one of them is in the second apron now, and that’s the Cavs, right? The team that I am, the team that I am fascinated about going forward, and I’m not sure how big their window actually is, uh, is Orlando. Um, the Orlando Magic are insanely expensive already. like they are they are below the first apron this year. However, with just looks like 1, two, three, four, five, six, eight players under contract next year, they’re already, according to Bobby’s numbers, over $6 million over the second April. Now, when they fill out their roster, you’re talking about a team that does not pay the tax that often. Could be $40 million over the tax. could be $45 million over the tax, could be $50 million over the tax. I don’t think that’s a very long-term viable uh strategy in Orlando. Uh and I that is when you talk about teams going up against the CBA, that’s an example of a team that they just went all in on Desmond Bane. We talked about the trade at the time. I love the fit of Desmond Bane in Orlando. Let’s see if France Vagner and Paulo Benero can take steps forward shooting wise. Let’s see if Jaylen Suggs can stay healthy. But that core four, if they’re on the court, could be right up there with Cleveland and right up there with the Knicks in the East for sure. But is that ownership group going to spend 40 50 million over the tax for a four-year window? I’m not sure about that. Well, it’s also about the quality of the players. We again our big summer at least my big summer uh promise going forward here is I’m going to be talking I’m going to try to talk more about percentage of the cap as opposed to the actual number. So when you look at percentage of the cap yeah they’re in decent shape today but between France Vagner Desmond Bane and Jaylen Suggs they’re making over 70% of the cap for those and then you have to mention the guy who’s going to be making the most money. Well, right. But well, his money isn’t on the books yet, but yeah, obviously next year Paulo, I know exactly, will make 25%. Well, actually, I guess he could make higher depending on whether he gets all NBA super uh um uh super max elability. But, you know, how many all-star appearances, you know, between Vagner, Bane, and Suggs? Do they have two? You know, I think Fron’s made one all-star team. Did Bane make one Allar team? They have zero. I don’t know. I was going to say make the allar team. I thought they have zero. Those guys have zero. Okay. So, so and and so let me ask you this. In 5 years, how many are they going to have? Well, they’ve got a lot better chance. They got a lot better chance in the East. Fair enough. But my point is Yeah. But but yeah, there may be that’s 70% of your of your of your cap, those three guys. Now, Paulo, you know, that’s a guy who is pre, you know, presenting as a guy who could be a multi-time all-star, but you got 70% of your of your of your cap tied up in three guys who are good players, don’t get me wrong, but do is that, you know, let’s look at the 70% of the cap that the that the Thunder have. I mean, I granted that’s a high that’s a high bar, but Well, that that that’s the bar if you’re going to be a second apron team. Yeah. And I and I had the numbers a little bit backwards. They’re they’re a couple million below the second apron. I was looking at the two lines wrong on the sheet, but they’re still a team that’s going to be on pace to be 30 million over the tax next year. And again, how long are they going to be willing to spend that kind of money to have four big contracts on the books when Jayen Suggs does on a descending deal? I think that’s going to end up looking pretty good. But, you know, that that I think is where you’re going to see a lot of questions with whether it’s the Cavs or the Magic or even the Knicks. like these teams are consistently in the tax bumping up against the second apron whether they get into it or not. The the one thing that we haven’t really touched on much in the CBA is that the repeater tax penalties are a lot stronger now than they used to be. And for all the talk about taking away tools from teams, it’s a hell of a lot more expensive for teams to be way over the tax now, especially if they get to the repeater than it used to be. And that I think more than anything is going to cause teams to have to retrench on spending. So, and that’s one of the reasons you’re going to have the the Boston Celtics, who just made a move in this week to to offload friend of the pod George Niang’s salary. The Celtics are are really focused on getting under the tax. Yes, they don’t want to outlay the money, but if they’re going to have this gap year, it’s so important for them to help reset the the repeater march because they’re already a repeater tax team, right? It’s so it’s it’s difficult. And so, by the way, just to compare the Cavs, who are a second apron team, if you look at Mobley, Mitchell, and Garland, all of them, their contracts are all on the books. Um, that’s about 85% of the of the uh tax uh I’m sorry, of the cap. Yeah. So, you know, like Donovan Mitchell’s a first team allNBA player, Evan Moy’s defensive player of the year, second team allNBA player, Garland’s a multi-time all-star. I’m not saying that that’s, you know, Wade, LeBron, Bosch, but, you know, if you if you know, the Magic are trying to beat them. You know, that’s a team they’re trying to beat. And so as you as you calculate going forward and mean in health plays a role, you can’t always predict that. But um anyway, well the Magic made a big big bet on Desmond Bane both in what they gave up the picks package including you know or highlighted by the Suns pick in next year’s draft and financially and they need that bet to pay major dividends or there’s going to be a lot of uncertainty. I I do want to hit real quick though on the Rockets and that because the Rockets to me are a fascinating um they’re in a fascinating they’ve created a fascinating situation. But I agree they’ve got I think they’re as well positioned to have a long run as any franchise uh other than Oklahoma City despite the fact that they just went all in. Not they didn’t go all in. They just made a trade uh to to get Kevin Durant who what’s he going into year 18 year 17 18? By the way, it’s August 6th as we’re recording this and Kevin Durant does not have a contract experience. No, that’s where that’s where I was headed. Yeah. I They did not go all in on the trade. They made a trade at a price that they were okay with that did not sacrifice the long term. You know, Jaylen Green was a second round pick that didn’t really pan out. Um, you know, we talked when they made the trade, if you’re ranking if you’re ranking the uh young players on the roster by future value, by long-term value, he he might have been fifth or sixth on that list. And then, you know, that they didn’t really have like an immediate spot for the 10th overall pick in this year’s draft. Hell, they didn’t they couldn’t squeeze the third overall pick in last year’s draft into the rotation. The Rockets aren’t going to go all in. By all appearances and and by what I’ve heard, they’re not going all in on an extension for Kevin Durant. Now, doesn’t mean it won’t happen, but you know, there’ve been rumblings of, hey, KD doesn’t, you know, he’s not going to push for the full max. Um, I don’t know that the Rockets are going to put anything on the table that’s close to the max. I think the Rockets are like it’s not ideal, but I don’t think they would panic if they go into the season with Kevin Durant just on the contract that he’s on just on the on the expiring deal. So, well, this is one of the things I talked about when Durant was on the market about whether a team looked at Durant as a expire would be comfortable with him on an expiring contract or felt that they needed to give him a 2-year 110 to $120 million extension and that that was going to affect what teams would pay for him. And as you said, the the you know, and I’ll say this, Rafel Stone, since he’s been the GM of the of the Rockets, he’s signed quite a few giant contracts, but a lot most of them have been short. Like Jaylen Green’s contract was short shorter and you know, Fred Van Vleet short has signed two short contracts. Even this contract they signed with Dorian Finny Smith, it’s only two years guaranteed. The Shenun was well south of Max. Well, and the and the two long contracts he’s given out, which are Alpar Shenun and Jabari Smith Jr. were both contracts that now we’ll see how everybody’s health goes and everything, were two contracts that the league viewed as good value contracts. Yeah. Yes. Rafel Stone has done an outstanding job and the Rockets as a whole have done an outstanding job of understanding the new economic environment the league is in and we’ve talked about it a lot. Teams have to be much better about negotiating every dollar on deals. And you look at what the Rockets have done, they have done a great job. Frankly, the only deal that wasn’t like that was the Jaylen Green deal, which they got a get out of jail free card on the Kevin Durant trade. But all these other trades that they’ve done or all these other deals that they’ve done, you know, you keep talking about percentage of the cap, Ryan. Apparent Shenun is 18% of the cap. He just made an all-star team last year. Fred Van Vleet 16% of the cap. Jabari Smith Jr. his contract starts out his extension under 15% of the cap and goes down from there every year. So those are all good, solid, long-term contracts. And as McMahon said, when you have all these young players and you’re trying to have this depth going forward, which is we’ve seen over the past couple years, deeper teams are probably going to have more success with where the league is headed. You have to mind your P’s and Q’s when it comes to these contracts and not be giving out extra money on deals where you wind up in the second apron sooner and you have all these difficult financial questions facing you sooner. And it’s why these Kevin Durant negotiations are very interesting. And I’m very curious to see where they land as to whether a he gets an extension done at all and b if he does get an extension done, what the number is because if you look at what the Rockets history is, history would tell you it’s not going to be two years for the max number. It’s going to be something a decent way south of that. Also, actions over words. Watch the way the Rockets have handled their business this summer. They have handled their business this summer to maximize cap space in 2027. So you look at Fred Van Vleet’s contract. He has a player option, but it he it he’s up in 27 now. Maybe he does another deal in a year from now and they re-evaluate, but he is off the books in 27. Dorian Finny Smith non-G guaranteed in 27. Bonu mentioned Jabari Smith Jr. contact contract dips in 27 then goes back up in 28 dips down. Um I think they did the same thing with Stephen Adams. Contract starts at a certain number dips down in 27. His contract is descending right from the beginning. Let’s see what happens with Tori Een whether they get a deal done with him. But I’m looking at this and I’m I’ll make a wager right now that it wouldn’t surprise me if a deal Tory Een signs dips in 27. And the reason I say that, the reason I say that, sorry. No, it’s okay. Durant, if he does an extension, you know, he can sign for two years, but that second year would be 2728. The Rockets actions indicate they’re protecting space in 27. I don’t know. They’ve got to have their reason why, and maybe it’s a hedge on something else and it won’t matter in a year, but keep that in mind as you think about what they’re going to do with Durant. If they’re if they’ve done four or five contracts that prioritize dipping their space and creating maneuverability in 27, I don’t think you should assume that Durant’s going to have a giant number in 2728 on the on the table. The the only thing to add there though is that all that is true. There’s a certain guy uh who’s going to be coming online with a new contract in the summer of 2027 that good and Amen Thompson who uh I suspect uh if he’s not making the max uh I suspect he’s going to be awfully close to the max and that is going to um that is going to eat a heavy chunk into any potential space that Houston will have um from a contractual standpoint. that summer. But yes, the Rockets have done a remarkable job of showing fiscal discipline and restraint all the way through. And I think if they can continue to do that, they’re going to have a real advantage over the competition because we’ve seen other teams not do that. And I think it’s going to bite them later and if you do that like Houston has and like Oklahoma City has to some extent too with the way they have their books set up. um it’s going to really pay off for you down the road in terms of managing your mind, managing your money in this new environment we’re in. Yeah. Fiscal discipline and uh an asset discipline as well. They’re still loaded. Yeah. And like look, a big trade could come to the four in the next, you know, six to nine months and they could go all in on that trade and their maneuverability for 27 could be moot because they may have another player on that books. They certainly at least before that would happen have made these decisions this way. All right, the next tier all in on building around young cores. Bontemps. Yeah, five teams here. Uh at some and a couple of them kind of interesting I would say. Uh Atlanta and Detroit in the east obviously San Antonio out west of Victor Wanyama and then the other two uh the Memphis Grizzlies and the Portland Trailblazers. Atlanta’s interesting. Um, in part because as you’re discussing their young core, you did not include Trey Young. He’s not that young. Well, he’s what is he 26 now? I believe 26 27. Either way, I mean, yeah, look, I would say that’s he is 26 turning 27 in September. There you go. All right. I would say uh Trey Young is a classic actions over words situation. Uh he’s got one year left on his contract uh before he can be a free agent. He has not signed an extension yet. And like we talked about the other day with De’aran Fox, I don’t think there’s a huge market for point guards around the league uh trade-wise in sort of that tier of player. And I think the way that the Hawks have set up their team, they’ve sort of set up an ensemble cast around Trey Young where they don’t really have a replacement for Trey Young to run their offense, but there’s also not a clear home for Trey Young to go elsewhere as a free agent. I would compare him in some ways to Julius Randle’s situation in Minnesota this past year. Uh, and he ended up getting a new deal done this summer at about the number he was at. I’ll be curious to see if an extension gets done with Trey Young or what happens there. But I think if you look at where the Hawks are headed, it’s with a team that’s built around Jaylen Johnson, last year’s number one overall pick, Zachary Reishes. Uh, and then the potential juicy pick they could have next year for the New Orleans Pelicans, which certainly if you talk to people in the league who run numbers, that’s got a really good chance of being a top five or six pick in what is a loaded top of next year’s draft. And if they end up with a native, Darren Peterson, a AJ Debansa, uh, Cameron Boozer to go with these other guys. Yeah, that’s a pretty awfully interesting situation. But yeah, the the Trey Young component of Atlanta’s future going forward is going to be really interesting to monitor because I if I was if I was Atlanta, I would be offering Trey sort of a deal like what Rudy Goar got done with Minnesota. Take a bit of money off what you’re making now. Get some more years. Lock yourself in with the Hawks. Guarantee yourself you’re going to get your number retired in the future. Best player they’ve had since Dominique. and we’ve got a team with an ensemble cast around you that’s got a chance to be a real force in the east with you on it, but we can’t do it with you on a max. So, it’ll be interesting to see how that conversation goes. I think it’s going to be hard to convince Trey Young um and listen, we we understand the limitations or the flaws, but I think it’s going to be hard to convince Trey Young with his offensive production that he doesn’t merit a max deal. So, you know, I I again I I think that I I don’t disagree with what you’re saying. I don’t disagree with the implication that Trey Young is not the uh that everything is not revolving around Trey Young in Atlanta anymore. I just think it’s an interesting thing to point out. It’s interesting you have the um Blazers on this list. I want to talk about the Blazers real quick. Um I that was I would say that was more of a a Kevin Pelton choice to put them in this tier than me. He just shoved him right out front there. No, it’s just the truth. Oh, what he’s saying is that’s specific Northwest homerisism. I Well, it just I we had discussions that went different ways. I pushed for Minnesota to be in the first tier and Kevin I would say push for Portland to be in this tier as example. Right. So, just like um this is a team that you know has Jeremy Grant on a giant untradeable contract and just traded for Drew Holiday and his hundred million um and signed Dame Lillard. So, it’s hard. Yeah. To an to a literally untradeable contract, no trade clause contract. I mean, hopefully that’s ends up being a good value contract that he comes back and is an all-star again at the at the at the uh Well, if it is, then it’s basically a one-year deal. one year that he plays deal because he also has a player option that I mean we don’t need to go over it again but the the the setup that Dame Lillard got the torn Achilles was horrendous and everything that’s happened since not that it makes up for it everything that’s happened since has been amazing for him and um and including um uh um that’s That’s that contract for the extra money he’s getting. Yeah. And look, and Portland is in a really interesting spot. They obviously bought out DeAndre Aton this summer to clear a pathway for playing time for both Donovan Klingan, who they drafted in the lottery last year, and Yang Hansen, who they drafted 16th this year. Uh they clearly have a lot of faith in him as a player long term. They have Shaden Sharp and Scoot Henderson uh in the back court. I’m curious to see if both of them are starting or not. Um, and what the futures for those guys are. Obviously, you just mentioned they traded for Drew Holiday this summer. They clearly have visions of him playing a big role. They still have Jeremy Grant. You know, they’ve got Denny Aia who’s who’s taken some really nice strides forward for them. He’s on a great long-term deal. Um, I do think they’re kind of caught in between more than I would have them in this tier. But the argument is you’ve got Scoot Henderson, you’ve got Saden Sharp, you’ve got the two bigs. They’ve leaned into that as their the core of their team going forward. Denny Avi is a young guy still. Uh Tammani Kamar I think and Tammani Kamar is the other guy obviously. Yes, he deserves in that conversation too. And what is Scoot Henderson? What is Shaden Sharper? Huge huge question marks. Um, obviously like there is major upside there, but the discussion there is about potential. It’s not about production or anything that’s proven to this point. As for uh the Grizzlies, you’ve got Jaw and Jiren Jackson and their young core. Are you including are you including Santi Alama and Zack Edy? Is that part of the core or you know I mean I would say the core of that team if you just look at it from the way they’ve allocated assets it’s the two stars John Jiren it’s Zack Edy who they drafted ninth and it’s Cedric Coward who they drafted 11th and traded up to get like that’s you know and then you got Jaylen Wells too who they like a lot and obviously they moved Desmond Bane thinking that Jaylen Wells can step into his spot in the starting lineup Spencer won’t they they also signed Cam Spencer this summer I mean they’ve you go to Zack Clim and they’ve done a nice job of of uh churning out a lot of useful players from, you know, got Scotty Pippen Jr., found him on Scrape, turned into a really good player. Like, they’ve they’ve done a really good job of generating depth uh over the past several years, but they made a big swing on Cedric Coward in the draft. The guy who only played a few games last year in college, came out, was the big late riser in the lottery. Um he’s the prototypical wing size player. He’s the kind of guy that Memphis Is there Desmond Bane replacement? Well, I mean I they would probably argue more Jaylen Wells. Yeah, Jay Jaylen Wells is is also a major part of their young core and he’s the guy who is going to be in the starting I mean he took Marcus Smart’s starting job last year, but I think they look at him as uh and and Coward is a similar prospect, right? Completely off the radar, a D3 guy. I mean, Wells was D2 who, you know, transferred um I think both to Washington State if I’m not mistaken. And, you know, it’s a lot about, you know, the the three and D cowards, I think longer, a little bit more athletic, but that type of guy. And then, you know, you guys mentioned this here, but also if you’re talking about the Grizzlies young core, they will be making a significant addition to that in next year’s draft for the Suns pick. We’ll see. Maybe the Suns will be better than everybody thinks. Um, you also put the Detroit Suns in the West playoff game. I’m just I’m just trying to You also have the Pistons on here who I who I This is actually be a really interesting season for the Pistons because they took the big giant step last year. Where do they find their more improvement? They had a really, you know, they had a competitive series with the with the Knicks in that first round. Who knows if uh Jaylen Brunson doesn’t hit that one shot where he just stuck his leg in the ground. One of the great moves the whole playoffs where he pivoted and hit that shot just dropping the dagger in Detroit after Assar Thompson had been shutting him down for oh man a few minutes. Yeah. So um they get Jaden Ivy back from that injury. um you know uh but definitely their so their young core obviously Kate Cunningham um who uh hit the supermax um Jade Ivy and Assar Thompson um you know Ron Holland a guy that they drafted in the top five a year ago who didn’t have um a really impactful rookie year. They’re hoping he takes a step forward. He would have to be uh I’m sure included in that. Um Jaylen Duran, a guy who Yeah, Duran is really young. Yeah, he’s he’s been around a while, but he’s he turns 23 right around the start of the regular season. I’m sorry, 22 right around the start of the regular season, right? So, that’s a Detroit’s um a team to a team to pay attention to this year for various reasons. Um uh we’ll see when the schedule comes out, but it would not surprise me if they have some made for TV matchups um where they get a little bit more attention this year because of what they did last year. Uh we talked about the Spurs a lot. Okay, the next tier um Bontemps, you have allin on two timelines and this is the one of I think I like this uh one uh maybe the most out of all of these. Uh and you’ve got a bunch of teams you think have two timelines with good reason. Yeah, Pelton, that was Pelton’s idea for them. That makes more sense. Group them together. And uh obviously a bunch of star power teams here. And the two timelines are for, you know, obviously it’s the, you know, you go back, the Golden State Warriors are in this tier, and you go back to the whole light years ahead with the the lottery picks thing, but it’s two timelines for a lot of different reasons. So yeah, I mean, they don’t they don’t want you they don’t want to hear their name mentioned with two timelines again. They try to retire that. That’s right. But the teams as a whole are Golden State, the two LA teams, the Clippers and Lakers, Miami, Dallas, and Philadelphia. Dallas sort of fell ass backwards into two timelines on lottery night. You know what though? The two the two timelines thing with Dallas really is fascinating though. Um because obviously in a lot of ways from a business perspective and just from like hey what the hell’s the future after this by Nico’s words three to four year window right that you created the Cooper flag stroke of lottery luck bailed the Mavericks out. Now, having said that, it’s going to be very interesting to see kind of how long is it before the transition happens that this is Cooper Flag’s franchise. Kind of how does that go? Um, it’s it’s AD’s franchise right now. You know, when Kyrie comes back, it’ll be AD and Kyrie’s with Cooper Flag as kind of the primary marketing interest. Um, but at a certain point, it’ll be his franchise. And then there’s there’s going to be major challenges building long-term around him because of the picks and the swaps that they gave up to successfully build a contender around Luca. I mean, you when you think about like, you know, typically you get a generational talent at number one overall and there’s going to be a couple more cracks at the at the early lottery, right? Like look at San Antonio. I mean, you know, you get Wimby, you get Stfan Castle, you know, they kind of lucked into Dylan Harper, but they, you know, they got a few cracks, uh, early lottery. Derek Ivy I lottery type of talent, but he’s probably going to be the only other young piece that that is kind of on that same timeline with Cooper Flag. um you know they have this year’s pick and then 27 to 30 it’s either they don’t have the pick or or it’s a swap and it’s going to be you know it’s a swap with the Thunder in 28 swap with the Spurs who I think will be pretty damn good by 30 and so there’s not going to be a lot of young talent being added to the mix as Cooper Flag is you know getting into his his early 20s. Yeah. So, also on this list, the two LA teams um that the Lakers clearly, you know, set up around 26-year-old Luca Don. Is he 27 or 26? He turns 27 in February. 26. Okay. So, he’s 26 now. Obviously, especially with the comments that Rob Pelinka made, uh um you know, around signing him, rightfully so. Um, but then they’ve got this team this year with 41-year-old LeBron who is coming off of a AllNBA season. I was gonna say have 41y old AllNBA, right? LeBron James, but you wrote in here, Bontemps, about the Austin Reeves situation, and Austin Reeves is sort of straddling the timelines here because he definitely was a player who thrived maybe not always with LeBron on the court, but certainly with the LeBron formatted team. you know that when they went to the conference finals, Austin Reeves was a big role in that and he remains a big role in the team. Um, but he’s aligned more in age with with Luca and he’s going into the final year of his contract. He’s got an opt out after this year, which he’s almost certainly going to take. And you talked in here about what a contract for him might look like. And so here’s my question to you, Bontams, and this may be a question the Lakers have to answer. Which timeline is Austin Reeves in? not necessarily with his age, but is he does he represent because they’re going to have to make a decision here. They’re going to have to make a decision about whether they’re going to pay Austrians. You you quote um league, you know, league executives here saying this guy’s getting over 30 million a year. Um I don’t disagree. Um this the Austin Reeves portion of this is an interesting thing that’s going to develop over this next six to nine months. Yeah. To be clear, that was in a story I did with Bobby Marks uh and about the Lakers. That’s about the Lakers. that also ran on Wednesday. But yeah, no, look, the I think the Austin Reeves, you know, there’s been a lot of talk about what is going to happen with LeBron James when he becomes a free agent next summer. But I I think there’s uh two very fascinating potential free agents in Los Angeles cuz we’ve talked about Austin Reeves before. He’s right now on a deal that is below market for him. He’s making in the final year of his deal this year $13.9 million. He’s got a player option for $14.8 million. will not be playing on that player option next year. He will be a free agent. Um, and he will be looking for a very big payday. Uh, I don’t remember if you said the number when you were running through that or not, but I talked to a few people around the league gauging what his market would be. And the belief is 30 million a year or more. And if you’re paying Austin, he probably wants or more. He’s probably looking for the or more of this. I feel like I could say with pretty good clarity that his he would think more than that. Um, and look, you can make an argument that LeBron and Austin will be the two best free for agents on the market next summer. Uh, you know, there’s a debate about, well, it depends on whether Trey Young or Kevin Durant extends. Well, but I mean, look, he’s he’s in his he’s going to be 28 years old, but he’s a big guard. He’s 6’5. There’s, you know, he could potentially be the the, you know, the lead guard on your offense for you. Like there, you know, there people are big fans of Austin. Uh that being said, if you look around the league, combo guards who are onep position defenders, which I would say Austin Reeves is one, he defends a position. Well, he’s a shooting guard. You know, he’s like Tyler Herro, he’s like Anthony Simons, he’s like a lot of these guys who are very talented players who there has not been a great market for in terms of asset return in trades, and they’re probably the most replaceable player type in the league. So, is he good enough to be the Jaylen Brunson or the Kyrie Irving next to Luca Donuch long term? If he is, I think the Lakers can feel comfortable giving him that kind of number and having those two guys be your creators going forward. If he’s not, then I think it’s a real question you have to ask yourself if you’re the Lakers about, you know, is that the right piece that you’re going to build with with him going forward? Because for all the talk about LeBron, what whatever is going to happen with his future, the Austin Reeves question could be the one that has a much bigger bearing on the championship ceiling and window of the Lakers over the next few years because you’re not signing him to a one or two-year deal. He’s getting a long-term deal at a big number and then you have him and Luca and then it’s you’re building around him and Luca assuming that he stays there. So that I do think that subplot throughout the season is going to be very interesting to watch, particularly after he really struggled in the Minnesota series. And as you guys both know, for all the attention on the Lakers this year and all the focus on Lucas future and everything else, how Austin Reeves plays this season and particularly assuming they get to the playoffs, how he plays in the playoffs is going to be an awfully interesting story to follow and it’s going to potentially have a big bearing on the Lakers summer next summer and their seasons beyond that depending on what they decide to do. Yeah, he struggled against the Timberwolves, you know, in his defense. um he did have a really good playoff run when they went to the Western Conference Finals a couple years ago. So, you know, it’s not like we’ve never seen this guy play well in the playoffs. Um you know, you you bring up Brunson and some similarities here, some major differences. Um, you know, one being that at this time last or this time, uh, that summer, the Mavericks could have gotten Brunson locked up to a contract that would have averaged 14 million a year, which but once it got past that point, you know, once it got into January and Brunson gave him a last chance and then he kept playing better and it was like, “Oh, okay, hold on. I’ve I’ve outplayed that number.” The Mavericks had a decision to make and that was trade him before that deadline, get value for them or take your chances of losing them for nothing that summer. And the the Lakers are already on that, you know, they’re in that situation now where they’re their options are either take a chance of losing Reeves for nothing next summer or, you know, be willing to pay whatever it takes to keep them. they do have the advantage of I’m sure Austin Ree would love to continue playing for the Lakers. Um or like if if you don’t want to pay what it’s going to take to keep them, do you trade them midway through this season and try to get value? You also have the Clippers on here. The Clippers, well, as is well known, have a whole bunch of guys in their mid to late 30s on their roster. They also have one guy on their roster right now who’s under contract past next season. That’s Avitzia Zubach. Um, uh, after that last 27 season to be clear. You’re saying after next season? Oh, I You’re saying this? Yeah. Yes. After the 26 27 season, their future books are completely clear. And he’s talking about two timelines. They got all these guys on this roster from 34 year old Kawhai to 40-year-old Chris Paul and um you know L Brook Lopez is like 37 and uh uh Batum is like 37 38 and um you know John Collins is still in his 20s I’m pretty sure but James Harden is I think 36. So they got, you know, this super veteran team now, but totally clean books and they’ve and they’ve they’ve worked, you know, in their, you know, they’ve they held the line a little bit with Kawawaii on his extension. They’ve held the line on on Harden’s contracts. They’ve given him flexibility to opt out, but kept him short. Um, you know, they when they acquired John Collins uh for Norm Powell, they they did that to to keep some flexibility in part. So this I mean they’re sort of the epitome of two timelines. Um for sure and then you’ve got the 76ers on here Bontemps and I don’t think this is by plan. I think it’s by reality of the health of their highest paid players. Um I’m not I’m not sure how those guys are going to hold up. Yeah. I mean this is they’re a lot like Dallas. You’ve got a young top I mean obviously Cooper is a different level prospecting than VJ Edcom but they got the third pick in the draft. They have VJ Edcom. have Tyrese Maxi, they have Jared McCain, they I thought getting uh Jabari Walker on a two-way this summer was nice. Like they have some good in and interesting young two young players on their roster. And then they’ve got Paul George and Joel Embiid, the two giant question marks in terms of their health, in terms of their ability to play at the level required for this team to be really good. And you know, that’s that’s why they fit in this group. You could put them in a couple of different buckets if you wanted to. They’re another team that’s hard to put somewhere. Um, in Miami, just 70% of the cap, by the way, with those two guys, George and and Miami, since we kind of glossed over them, they’re they’re another one of these teams that has a bunch of cap space in the next year or two and has an okay roster now. Obviously, they make the Norm Powell deal this summer, basically get him for free. They should be more of a factor in the East this year than they were the last couple years, but you know, they’ve had some designs on trying to upgrade their roster moneywise, and they’re going to have some money to spend in the next couple seasons, too. Well, a interesting thing for the Heat. Do they extend Norman Pal? The same situation that the Clippers had to deal with. And and if do they extend Tyler Hero, and if they do, at what number? which would, you know, maybe clarify. Both of those guys, I would say, fall into the same exact bucket that uh Austin Reeves is in. Also, two more combo guards who are good players where there’s not a voluminous market for them in the trade market, which is why Norm Powell was acquired coming off the best year of his career by the Heat for Kyle Anderson, Kevin Love, his second. Yeah. All right. Your next uh uh tier here is uh all in on gap years and you’ve actually got two teams that are all in on gap years here. Yeah, this one was the easiest one on the whole list. You got Boston in Indiana obviously no Jason Tatum, no Tyresese Hallebertton. Uh the Celtics lose Drew Holiday and Chris Daps Porzingis by trade as they I believe will get out of the tax by the time we get to the end of the season uh and reset their repeater clock. They’re only, I think, 10 or 12 million over the tax now. Um, I think they’ll get out of it one way or the other. And then Indiana loses Miles Turner. Uh, whether they uh were surprised uh by the Bucks coming in like everyone else was or not, they were. I think Kevin Pritchard on the No, I know. But my point is I’m saying my point is we talked all spring about were the Pacers actually going to be willing to pay the luxury tax, something they never do. And for all of the bluster they had about paying the tax, they are not paying the tax. And you could say they’re not doing it because Tyrese Hallebertton is hurt. That’s fine. Um, but their team was built around an ensemble cast and Miles Turner was a big part of that. Miles Turner left and they’ve replaced him with Isaiah Jackson who also tore his Achilles and is on a three-year deal with nine guarantees the outy years. And they traded for Jhoff from Memphis. So, both of these teams look like they’re preparing more for this the the fall of 2026 rather than trying to be as competitive as they can in 2025. Yeah, Achilles tears created tears that put them in this tier. The next one is you’ve got all in on quote draft positioning. The tankers um very simple. Brooklyn, Charlotte, Washington, and Utah. I don’t think we need to say much more than that. Okay, I will say this. I’ve got Charlotte fans in my life who believe that the Hornets can move this year. Move what? Move up. Well, look, if Charlotte wants to be competitive in the East this year, and if LaMelo Ball and Brandon Miller are healthy, uh, sure, I think you can make an argument certainly that Charlotte could get into the playin mix and have a chance to make the playoffs. I would also say again from an actions over word situation that uh the current centers on the Charlotte Hornets roster are Mason Plumbley, Ryan Caulbrunner, and the guy who might be their starter, Musa Diabate. Like that is not a center rotation of a team that I think is really aggressively trying to move up the standings this year. I think a Charlotte would love to get a crack at Darren Peterson, Native Amen, AJ Debansa, you know, one Cameron Boozer, one of these guys, and then put their foot down and start to really rev things up. Yeah. I think if you’re a Hornets fan, what you’re looking for this year is you want Khan Canipple to have a chance to win the rookie of the year. You want to see him like be putting up big numbers. you want to see him playing alongside uh Brandon Miller and and trying to figure out a way to get the three of them with LaMelo um efficient in a way that doesn’t make your stomach turn like sometimes happens the way they played offense last year. And if those three guys look like you’ve got something going, then you can be excited about it. whether you finish 11th or whether you finish, you know, and let’s let’s see LaMelo Ball play. Well, that’s fair. Ball played more than 51 games. It’s just interesting. You don’t have them under your and I don’t want to spend too much time belaboring the point, but we’re going to throw the Hornets fans a bone here, but you don’t have them on, you know, you know, um, devoted to their young tears here like you had with these other teams. And, you know, LaMelo is also up for an extension. I I was gonna say I think the biggest question about Charlotte’s future is whether LaMelo Ball will be part of it. LaMelo is still a year away from uh extension talk. He’s still got three more years on his deal after this year, but um they uh they’ve got I mean since he played 51 games as a rookie, he played 75 games his second year. The last three years he’s played 36, 22, and 47. like whatever whatever other questions you want to have about LaMelo’s game. Let’s see him play 65 or 78. Let’s see him qualify for end of season awards. Let’s see him be healthy and productive for a full season. But yeah, look like these guys drafted Tan Salon. He’s got a lot of time to grow still. Brandon Miller had surgery last year, missed a bunch of time. Let’s see him come back and play. You mentioned Khan. Let’s see what he can do. Brandon Miller only played 27 games last year for them. like let’s see their young guys on the court and playing and we’ll see where they land. But my guess is this is another live they’re energized by their summer league championship. Okay. In the last tier you have allin and this is two of them. What? He’s got two more tiers. Two more tiers. Skipped it. Oh, there’s there’s a single team tier that I didn’t even see. Okay, we’ll get to there. That’s a little tease. All right. All in on this is a harsh one. No, no, these last two are both harsh. All in. These are USWB tiers if I’ve ever seen them. Yeah, the this was not Pelton. All in on nothing. I got nothing for you. Go ahead. UF nothing. Uh yeah, Fountain actually did come up with the team the the term for the final tier because I I I would have originally had that team. If if you your fans, the fans, we’ll see how many of them have done the powers of deduction. Well, the the four teams in this group are Charlotte, Sacramento, New Chicago, New Orleans, Sacramento, and Toronto. Well, I certainly agree with the Bulls. They’ve been all in on nothing for a while. Um, I think the Pelicans would try to argue they’re all in on their young core, including the two guys that they drafted uh in the first round this year in the lottery this year. But boy, was that a befuddling just a befuddling trade to give up a likely higher pick in next year’s draft to to move up 10 spots. Well, they’re also one of the Achilles teams. They they their Achilles injury with DeJonte Murray happened a while ago. Yeah. So it doesn’t get grouped in with the three unfortunate ones we saw in the postseason, but Well, and they they weren’t a playoff team. Yeah. Right. They’re just sort of they’re just sort of whipssawing all over the place and it’s hard to really it’s hard to really get a sense of what the overall plan is uh with the new regime led by Joe Dumar and Charlie. I would also say there’s an unclear plan in Sacramento. Well, and real quick on New Orleans again, there’s still the Hey, like what’s up with Zion? Is this a guy you’re building around? Is like is this a guy you can get value for? There remains offc court stuff. Yes. Yeah. It’s just it’s just there’s just it’s just not there’s not a lot of clarity in general there. Um, yeah. I mean, look, Sacramento a few years ago had Tyrese Hallebertton and De’Aran Fox and then you have exit meetings, exit interviews back in April and Deon Sabonis is saying, “Yeah, we need a point guard on the team.” Basically, Dennis shooter, right? Still out there. Russ is still out there. They’ve basically recreated the Bulls from a couple years ago with the Matis Sabonis. They were also well yes they as the Mosabonis as in the Nick Vousvich spot alongside Demar Rosen and Zack Lavine. Like it I I thought they did fine on the De’Aran Fox trade when Fox wanted out to get the assets they did for Fox at the time. But yeah, it’s just from where these guys were a couple years ago, they fired Mike Brown, they fired Marty McNair, they’ve they’ve blown things half up and they’re kind of stuck in no man’s land where they’re not really rebuilding and they’re also not really good enough to be a playoff team. So the Raptors fans would be annoyed that they’re here. you know that those folks, those fine folks in Toronto are a little sensitive. They would be a little annoyed saying, you know, here comes Brandon Ingram and um Grady Dick had a good finish to last year and you know, Scotty Barnes, this is when he ascends. And yeah, I mean Toronto I Toronto is kind of in the same spot where like they make this Brandon Ingram trade. I mean, they essentially turned Fred Van Vleet, Pascal, Siaka, and OGN, and Obi into RJ Barrett, Emanuel Quickley, and Brandon Ingram. Like, when you look at the sum total of their moves, I’m not a huge fan of that. They gave Yaka Purle an odd extension, I thought, this summer. Um, they have some interesting young guys. Grady Dick had an interesting year last year. Jacobe Walter has some potential. Conory Boils, the guy they took with the ninth pick in this year’s draft. Super interesting defensive prospect. He’s got a chance to be in all Hey, Jamal Shed was a revelation down the stretch last year. I really like Jamal Shed. He’s going to be a long-term really good backup point guard, I think, in the NBA. Like a long-term rotation player. Um, but it again like they’re in the tax with a team that like are they out of the playing in the East? Maybe. Are they in the playing? Well, they’re definitely one of the 10 best teams in the East. This is the thing. I I I would almost say they’re all in on the playing. Like like I mean maybe maybe that would maybe it’s the same thing as saying all in on nothing, but I would I think they’re all in on the play. Yeah. It’s just it’s just hard to really pin down again like what the overall vision is like when and maybe this is I mean obviously Messiah left this summer. She had an incredible run in Toronto. But if you go back a couple years ago when they started when they didn’t resign Fred Vanfleet and they made these trades, the idea was you bottom out and come back up and last year they didn’t keep their pick. Ended up going ended up being the pick that became Rob Dillingham uh as part of a prior trade to bring Yaka Purle back to Toronto. Don’t like the value on that. This year they end up with the ninth pick. Again, get a player I think got a chance to be a really good player in Colin Murray Boils. But it’s just felt like they’ve kind of been straddling rebuilding and trying to get back in the playoffs for the past couple years and I’m not I’m not thrilled about where it left them. You you said with uh with certainty that they’re a top 10 team in the East. They’re better than Washington. They’re better than Brooklyn. I’ll give you Charlotte. Yeah. Who else are they with absolute certainty better than? Uh they’re better than Chicago, I would say, for sure. Uh, let me look at the standings. I don’t know if that’s a certainty, but okay. Um, we finished beneath them last year. I would say they’re better than Chicago. I think there’s a decent chance if Philly has injuries. I think there’s a decent chance they’re better than Philly. I think they could be better than uh Boston potentially this year because I think the Celtics could really struggle. Boston and Indie. Indie is another one you could have questions about. Like I think Toronto’s floor, I think, is fairly high because they have a bunch of solid players. I think their floor is 12th. Well, I think their floor is higher than that. But my point is I the the ceiling is not very high. And if the like coming out the other side of a rebuild, in theory, they’re on the other side of the rebuild now. Like this is their team. This is why they’re in this tier because we’re talking about them. And as Brian said, you could argue they’re all in on the playin. I would say that’s sort of the same kind of thing Sacramento is in. They’re Sacramento of the East, I would say, is the simplest way to put it. That’s never something. The one difference you want to hear, however you finish that sentence, you’re the one difference is the one difference there that is worth pointing out is Scotty Barnes has a chance to be really, really good. And if he does take a big step forward and becomes an all-NBA forward, a true AllNBA forward this year, like what Kate Cunningham did last year, for example, um this conversation looks different if he’s a top 15 player in the league. And we’ll see if he But what happened? What happened before Kate Cunningham had his big breakout season? They went out and surrounded him with shooting. Yes. And Toronto has only not added shooting to this team. Yeah. They they put him in a in a situation where he had a chance to succeed and I don’t think that’s happened with Scotty Barnes. Yeah. All right. The final tier. I didn’t see this when I read the story. You got to keep scrolling, I guess. So, all in on 2024. O, by the way, it’s 2025. Another way to put this when all them goes wrong. Yeah, Phoenix Suns obviously in this tier, uh, you know, I we’ve talked a lot about the Suns and their decision- making. Um, you know, I think as McMahon just said it very well, uh, when allin goes wrong, the Suns are a good example of that. Um, you know, from the Bradley Beal buyout to the failed Kevin Durant trade to I mean, you could even argue maybe long down the road the Devin Booker extension. Um, you know, they’re Yeah, it’s it’s going to be a rough few years ahead in Phoenix most likely. Well, their fans would say that um Brian Gregory and did a good job of bringing in, you know, size and focusing on defense and that, you know, they were really able to improve their depth and, you know, acquiring the lottery pick, you know, come on Maluatch, you know, gives them something they haven’t had in a while, which is a young player to build around. You know, they would probably their front office would say this. Well, you know what? I think their fans I guess that’s a fair point. Their fans would say, “Hey, thank goodness that Ishbia slashed beer prices. They turned Kevin Durant into Jaylen Green.” I would say that that would be my rejection. Well, you got No, hold on now. I’m gonna call you on that. You got to see what Malia Watch becomes. Dylan Brooks is a solid role player. Yes. No, I agree. They got some. But I I’m just saying like I don’t think the trade was a mistake. But that trade. No, right. That trade the the last trade. I’m just I’m just saying though that that is the situation that the Suns put themselves in where the best trade they could make was to get what you could charitably call a very distressed asset. Oh yeah. Solid role player and the 10th pick in the draft for Kevin Durant. Well, the simple fact of the matter is this. The Rockets gave you back your own pick and you and they still have two in their pocket. Yes. So, and like when we’re Kevin Durant Yes. And when we’re Right. And when we’re discussing like the Grizzlies, you bring up the 26 Suns pick, you know, like having Suns picks is is one of the most valuable assets for multiple teams around the league. So, well, and even even too like like for example the um like the the Mark Williams trade that Phoenix made um Mark Williams an interesting young player like we talked about in February, flawed player both from a game game style play and from an injury standpoint and they don’t have very many first round picks to trade and they traded two of them to get them after they drafted K. One of them was the 29th pick in this draft, but yes. Okay, I’m just saying. But listen, they drafted the the Hornets got Liam McNeely with that pick who was going into the draft a top 20 pick and is a guy who has could be a really good shooter long term, which like these guys could use. I just again like from even from some of their asset management stuff like that, like you draft a center at 10, you trade two first round picks of your very limited pool of assets for another center five minutes later. Well, and and how did how did they get how did they get those picks that they gave up for Mark Williams, right? Doing the trading three trading 43 end of the first round draft picks for an unprotected future first round pick that Justin Xanic from the Jazz when he made the trade openly said was the best asset in the league when they made the trade. And I think it’s hard to uh I mean I think the the trade the pick the Hawks got a few months later might have surpassed it, but there are not many assets in the league with more value than that future Suns first uh that Utah got in exchange for three picks that are I’d say probably 80 to 90% likely to be 25 or later in the draft. Uh all right. Well, those that completes the tears. I just picture you’re a fan. You’re a Suns fan. You’re scrolling through saying, “Oh, is this is this a tier my team’s going to be in?” “Oh, maybe is this a tier?” There is a Suns out there that’s reading content about the NBA in August. I would suggest to them to go have a nice drink and find a pool and probably leave the state of Arizona where it’s 5,000 degrees right now and chill. Not in the north. In the north, there’s some nice parts of northern Arizona. Uh, all right. Thank you very much to Jackson who’s got to edit through all this direct. Uh thank you to McMahon and Bontemp. Thank you to you again for uh sticking with us through August. If you are with us this far into this podcast at this date on the calendar, we love you. We couldn’t do it without you. Um and we will talk to you next week. Nobody provides sunshine like the USWB. Adios amigos.

Brian Windhorst is joined by Tim Bontemps and Tim MacMahon to react to the all-in tiers list for the upcoming season breaking down the goals for every team in the NBA. The guys talk who should be going for a title, who should be lottery bound and who needs to find a direction.

0:00 Intro
1:13 NBA all-in tiers for 2025-26 season
2:58 Winning a championship before the window closes
6:27 Are the Bucks hedging for the future?
17:43 Extended championship window
22:22 Orlando’s expensive roster a future issue?
28:07 Rockets set for best future after OKC?
35:53 Building around young cores
46:17 All-in on…two timelines
47:03 Dallas lucks into a second timeline
49:19 Lakers interesting decision for Austin Reaves
59:11 All-in on…a gap year
1:00:51 All-in on…”draft positioning”
1:04:45 All-in on…nothing?
1:12:11 All-in on…2024

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