How the Bucks’ Bigs Stack Up Against the Rest of the NBA and Another Cautionary Tale for Giannis?

How the Bucks’ Bigs Stack Up Against the Rest of the NBA and Another Cautionary Tale for Giannis?

Buck’s biggest strength is their bigs, but how does it relate to the rest of the NBA? We take a look at the front court tears coming up next on Locked on Bucks. You are locked on Bucks, your daily Milwaukee Bucks podcast, part of the Locked On Network, your team every day. Welcome in to Locked On Bucks. I’m Justin Garcia. You can hear me throughout the course of the season on the Bucks Radio Network. We thank you for making this your first listen to the day each and every day. Today’s episode of the show is brought to you by our friends at Game Time. Download the Game Time app, create an account, and use the code locked on NBA for $20 off your first purchase. Joined today um the man behind Brew Hoop, Van Fias, who we have on here quite a bit. It’s been a weird like transition. I guess year summer for the Bucks. It’s kind of been the same for Brew Hoop as well. The Bucks said goodbye to Damen Lillard. You guys said goodbye to Gabe and are now moving on in another direction. Different circumstances behind those two exits. Yeah, we didn’t we didn’t wave and stretch uh Gabe Staltz. No, he he he left under his own accord under good terms. He is uh having a family. So, no more time to go to Bucks games and stay up with you until midnight waiting for No more time. Yeah. To put in those hours and make the media money anymore. That’s right. When you got a family to uh to focus on. And I I got to tell you, and I I I shot this I think I shot it to him, too. But I was lurking on uh Reddit, not on the Bucks sub, and I saw somewhere else somebody referenced the Google sheet that Gabe put together for food truck rankings. So, continuing to take on some legs and a life of its own. Um, we mentioned at the top of the show the strength for this Bucks team for all the questions over the back court and, you know, who’s going to be the second leading scorer, uh, how much do you trust Kevin Porter Jr. in those types of discussions. Even some saying, “Hey, Ryan Rollins is going to jump past him.” I think we have I know we have much fewer questions in the front court. And we were talking about, “All right, where does this front court rank for the Bucks?” And I suppose, so should we say we’re just looking at fours and fives for this experiment? People who are playing those positions like like can credibly play those positions. There’s I think one team will talk about Kyle Kosma for you then. Well, I I think yeah, I guess it has to because he’s a he’s a four. I mean, he’s going to be part of the rotation at the four. I was more thinking about like uh you know, the one team will talk about if one of their guys who plays a lot of the four really is a four, but we’ll get to that. I mean I think basically anyone who you know there’s no exact science to this because like cleaning the glass basketball reference they have their own kind of takes on who is playing what position but basically like who are the biggest you know three four guys that a team is playing regularly in their rotation and are going to be splitting basically all of the minutes at the four and the five. That’s kind of how I’m looking at it. And that’s that’s basically I believe cleaning the glass. I I think they all do it the same way, but it who are you defending is how they determine what position. Yeah, that’s kind of how I look at it, too, which gets a little tricky with one of the teams that we’re going to get to, but uh nonetheless, we’ll we’ll rip the band-aid off here. So, um trying to plot out essentially tiers and where do the Bucks rank in terms of their bigs and uh front courts? And I I mean, I think we both have them very high. You may have them higher than I do, but I I think if we start with who is in the discussion of where the Bucks would be, I had four teams that I would put up there as um basically your unassalable group as the number one tier and then do the Bucks fit into that group? I think so. But to me, those four teams were the Cavaliers, the Oklahoma City Thunder, obviously the Rockets, who seemingly added nothing but bigs this off season. Yeah. And I had the Denver Nuggets as the fourth one there where you got Jokic, Aaron Gordon, and then you finally bring in a backup that you can rely on for Nicole Joic, too. Now that that’s resolved, is he playing? He’s staying. Okay. Yeah. So those and I I I would put the Bucks in that tier. To me, the tier of the best front courts in terms of bigs would be those five teams. So, if you broke it into the tiers, would you have more or less? I’m assuming the Bucks are in that top tier. They’re definitely in that top tier. I I guess it’s hard for me to necessarily tier some of these. I I think like I mean the the teams, you know, I I consider are are the same ones as as you. And like if we’re talking like best of the best, like I think certainly when you have the like one of the best players on earth, like one of the best centers ever, you’re up near the top. Cleveland is maybe the most prominent example. Uh and they were I guess there there was some doubt uh if that pairing was going to work, you know, coming into the last couple years. And while we haven’t seen postseason success, I mean, yeah, Ellen is a Ellen is a good defensive center. um he’s not like a gonna be like a an inside outside scorer on the other end, but he can protect the rim. And Evan Mobley is kind of a Swiss Army knife guy a lot like Giannis is defensively. Um obviously there have been a lot of comparisons between Evan Mobley and Giannis. So, uh, those two and I think, you know, Houston would have been probably in that conversation last year even with just having, uh, Shangun, Steven Adams, uh, who came back, um, and I guess Jabari Smith, but they add, well, they bring they bring back Clint Capella, uh, yeah, and they have they have him and Adams behind Shenon. Shenun’s going to slide over to the four a lot, which she can do. And he’s kind of one of those offensive hubs, right? But then also like uh Kevin Durant, he he’s he plays a lot of he plays a lot of four. Like in in smaller lineups, I think you’ll probably see like him up in the front court with Shangun and then someone like Dorian Finny Smith or Terry Een will will play the three. So um I think you have to put him in that mix as well. Kevin Durant in their big mix there. The other teams I think I would just the the one other team I think I would add to this conversation. Um but they’re a little bit more green and unproven mostly because of health is the Orlando Magic. Um I’m a big fan of Wendelcari Jr. and uh I I think he you know he has some of that like Miles Turner Brook Lopez type two-way game. Um, Beno is obviously like, you know, he he’s I think he’s already like a a borderline all-star if he’s healthy and he may, you know, if if I think if he can make another leap into kind of like that allNBA territory this year, that’s what’s going to put the Magic into like, you know, the like a title contention type of tier. And then, uh, France Vagner, he plays the four a lot as well. He’s more of a four. They got Jonathan Isaac and Mo Vagner and Goa Patad backing him up. I think they should kind of be in that conversation as well. So, yeah. Um, I guess about five teams. I mean, there are a few other teams we could talk about as well, but uh I mean looking at the Bucks, just what they have like before Miles Turner was signed, I was pretty comfortable actually with just the idea of Giannis, Bobby Portoris, and Jericho Sims. Like, I wouldn’t have been saying that was one of the best front courts in the league necessarily. Um, but I think it was something that could work. Um, and now you add Miles Turner into that who is I mean he looks like he’s gonna fit like a glove next to Giannis. And I mean just with how good Giannis is and how well uh Turner fits with him and how good Turner is on his own merits. Yeah. I mean I think you have to put him up there with with OKC and and Denver. And I mean, I think you can make an argument that they’re a better front court than them just because I mean, Giannis is the most dominant interior player out of anyone we’re talking about. Like Jokic is I mean, obviously an elite offensive player, but he’s not just camped out there in the paint and like or or just he’s not really cutting to the rim much at all. like he’s more of a distributor down there and he’s not as much of a scorer down low as Giannis is and we just I mean we’ve seen it. Giannis is just so dominant down there. So I think that is something that kind of puts it over the top. Yeah, I don’t know. Um I would have them in the top five. I don’t know what number I would put them at. Um, I mean, I suppose the conversation for the Nuggets and the Bucks is the same in that I can’t drop a uh front court with Giannis or with Jokic lower than this figure that I think they’re at least going to be here. And then it just is a matter of well, what do you like around them better? And which of those fit really well too like the what Denver has? It’s I think Cam Johnson will fit perfectly. He’ll play a lot of four and obviously know Aaron Gordon is a good fit too. So the fit there is great. Which of those are more two-way style? Um Oklahoma City again like it’s tough to push them down when they’re the reigning champions. It’s largely JDub and Chad Holgrren that were raving about in the front court there. You have Isaiah Hartenstein as well. Um, but he’s great, but yeah, he’s going to he wasn’t playing a whole lot late in games. That’ll be the same with that might be the same with Miles Turner uh at points this season or in the postseason. He may not he may be um out of closing lineups much like Hardenstein was. And yeah, and then for Cleveland, I mean, I I I think those questions still exist over a dozen. Same thing with Allen. Yeah. Yeah. because what we’ve seen, you know, again, I think Camille and I talked about this too, that uh I would just be cautious of saying, well, we had injuries and this happened and we’ll get them next year because we said that for the last three or so years, and you saw how that turns out. So, I I still have those questions over the fit and then once you get to the second unit, it’s not quite as enticing. They did bring back Larry Nance Jr. Dean Wade can play a number of different positions for him, but that’s really it in their front court. So, I I think I’d probably slot the Bucks somewhere in the middle in that top five of their front court. Um, which probably sounds like I’m we’re more not we, me more down on them than we should be, but it’s more of just like got to have a healthy respect of of what the Thunder did. The Rockets just have this wave of bigs and we saw how parts of it fit last season. Those to me are kind of tough to move past that. I would probably put the Bucks and the Nuggets side by side there. I think that’s fair. I mean, when you look at what a front court, especially a five, is supposed to do um protect the rim uh on defense. like that’s the I’d say the most important thing that that’s that’s the most important thing that a guy who plays the five does on an NBA floor, right? Um and with the exception of like I guess Cleveland, I mean these teams we’re talking about, I think Miles Turner is probably the best rim protector out of out of everybody we’re talking about here. Um, I mean, like certainly I I don’t think Houston has like a great rim protector. I mean, Capella and Adams can do it. Um, Cleveland does, but yeah, the the two-way uh aspects of that front court, not quite the same. Denver’s front court, like the defense is a little bit more I think they’re they’re a little bit stronger on the wing rather than um on the interior. So then I mean it’s really just it’s really just OKC and I mean Homegrren to me he’s I mean he’s such a versatile defender. I I don’t think of him I think of him as a great defender. I don’t think of him as one of the best like 10 rim protectors in the league right now. Um and I don’t know if I necessarily say Hartinstein I wouldn’t say he is either but he’s still good. Um and he can do that when they need him. Uh but yeah, none of these guys I don’t think are uh on these in this, you know, this conversation. There are other teams really are as good around the rim um as Miles Turner will be. There’s a couple of other interesting teams we didn’t necessarily touch on that I I want to take a look at that because uh I think there’s a little bit of a shift here for the last couple of years and we’ve heard more and more coaches talk about this too of playing with multiple bigs. So, we’ll take a look at some of the rest of that list coming up after this on Lockdown Bucks. Time to talk to you now about our friends over at Game Time. 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Let’s see the Dallas Mavericks if Anthony Davis can stay healthy, how they utilize Cooper flag, uh, how Dererick Lively comes back from injury and and the other pieces that they have there. The Timberwolves we had both talked about as well. Uh you mentioned Orlando, Atlanta is interesting with Chris Staps Porzingis and what version they get there. Jaylen Johnson obviously a big piece. Anka Kongwoo, Mohamed Gay had some big moments for him last year, but too only against the Muhammad Gay and uh why why is his name escaping me now? the uh the the big from uh from Charlotte who cleaned up on the Bucks as well. Diabet. Yeah, there it is. Um two other interesting ones that I’m just going to throw out there. Um I the Knicks to me are the most interesting and the kind of like how do you view this? I think we’re both aligned in that technically every depth chart and starting lineups that you look at is going to list Josh Hart at the four. OG is the four like Carl Towns, OG, Mitchell Robinson, and now Gersonelli that to me, yeah, they’re up there, too. I think it’s a pretty solid front court. they have now a more legit power forward um to go alongside because Ananobi is kind of one of those like uh like combo forwards, right? Like he he’ll play he he he plays on the wing like he he’s going to defend wings. Um same with Josh Hart. I mean I think Josh Hart they just I don’t know who’s calling him a four necessarily. It’s just like oh he gets a lot of rebounds. Um, so, uh, but obviously like when it comes when when someone like Giannis comes to town, uh, Josh Hart is not going to be guarding him. That’s going to be OG’s Simon or or or Michael Bridges. Those will probably be the main guys. And those are the guys kind of playing those are guys you see playing the four, but are more wings. And Yabu is like a I think he is a bit undersized in terms of maybe height at the five, but he’s got the the explosiveness, the strength. Yeah, he’s he’s he can definitely do it. Um and then you have Towns who is a a great offensive big man, of course, one of the best ever. And if Mitchell Robinson’s healthy, they have a rim protector there that that can serve them well, too. So yeah, they they might be um I I think even without Josh Hart in the conversation, they’re one of Yeah, they might they they should be in this conversation, too. Uh as should Minnesota. But I want to ask you something because this came up um and I was we just did a pod this past week with uh Marcus and Chris Johnson and um we discussed this and they also discussed this on their podcast with Kevin O’ Conor. Um they were I mean they were talking about and we talked about how is this Bucks front court um with its depth with Sims and and Portoris behind them um rack up against or stack up against the these other front courts in the league? Like is it one of the best? And it seemed like Livingston too. Yeah, sure. It seems like um and our guy Pete Nance, how about him? He looked great in summer league. We we can’t we won’t leave him out of the conversation either. Um, and I guess Tyler Smith, but regardless, uh, they were I they seem to all be all those guys like, uh, Chris, Marcus, Kevin Oconor, seem to think that like the Bucks were, yeah, one of the best like two or three in the league, it seemed like. And then the conversation, at least with when I was talking with Marcus and Chris, just kind of went around like, is this sort of the new um, to borrow a a money ball term, is this the the market inefficiency now? like should teams because of what OKC did. Um like do you is this the new like way of playing in the NBA like where you have one really versatile big like Giannis and then someone who can protect the rim who also is a two-way guy. Yeah. Uh like you know like Miles Turner is or um I guess I mean like Brook Lopez was. The Bucks were kind of doing this before but now more teams are doing this. So is this sort of is it is it an advantage now? Is it a competitive advantage to have this kind of a front court? Yeah, I mean that’s the interesting part is I think the other important component and Camille and I talked about one of the differences between Brook Lopez and Miles Turner because I I mean I think we would all agree Miles Turner is much closer to Brook Lopez in terms of his style of play than Jericho Sims, but he’s younger, he’s a little more athletic and mobile and um you you feel like, okay, we’re just getting a younger version of Brook Lopez. But one of the important things that Brook Lopez did, as much as people complained about five rebounds a game, he created rebounding opportunities for his team. Miles Turner’s counting stats are not great. They’re even worse than Brook Lopez’s. And I’ll be honest, I have not dug too much into the Pacers rebounding splits with Miles Turner on versus off, but based on some of the discourse I’ve heard, I’m inclined to think it wasn’t quite as impactful as we saw from Brook Lopez for his team, and I do think that’s the other important component is not only rim protector, but doing the dirty work for the other guys on the floor. Yeah. boxing out um on the other end setting screens and I I think that’s something we we haven’t mentioned that is like that was something that uh Middleton or I’m sorry not Milton um Lopez was elite at was setting screens and uh Turner by all indications is as well. I mean that him and Hallebertton that was one of the best pick and roll combinations in the league last year. But I I did pull up some of his uh defensive rebounding or the team’s defensive rebounding numbers when when they were on the when he was on the court. Um the the the the Pacers, they they grabbed uh 75% of uh available defensive rebounds. Um when he was off the floor, 73.4, so a little bit better. That that was last year. Um but uh the opponent um they were they were getting they were getting a fair bit more as well. So like he wasn’t I guess necess he wasn’t helping their offensive rebounding, which yeah, doesn’t that’s not a big deal with the Bucks. they don’t, you know, rebound the ball much on the offensive glass. Unless that’s one of the changes that we’ve seen because I I talked about um on yesterday’s show, too. Like I am curious if the offense looks somewhat different in that, okay, we know it’s going through Giannis, but we need to incorporate more movement. It can’t just be sit in your spot in the corner, sit above the break, and just wait and watch Giannis and wait for him to get you the ball. like is there going to be more offball movement from the offense? And I think that’s the other question too is like do you actually try to become not one of the better ones but more of an offensive rebounding team now that Yeah. that Doc has long joked we’re not going to win any foot races. We have to win the shot put. Well, the makeup of the team has changed now this off season. Yeah. I I have a feeling that Turner isn’t gonna necessarily do that because he’ll be not Miles Turner, but maybe other groupings that you put out there. Sure. Maybe like with Sims out there. Um and and and Portoris. Yeah. And if if I recall correctly, like the Pacers were maybe I think the Bucks maybe were 30th in offensive rebounding. The Pacers were 29th. They were pretty they were pretty low as well. But I mean, cleaning the glass now, I’m looking like over the years. Generally, um they were a better rebounding team uh on the floor, the Pacers, uh as opposed to when he was off. Um among bigs, they have him in the 81st percentile last year uh the year before, 96th. Um, but going back in his career, like his first few years, the those numbers weren’t so great, but as he got better, he he as he aged, I guess they they became a better um defensive rebounding team when he was on the floor at least. So, while I don’t know if he’s going to, you know, have Brook Lopez numbers in that regard, and we’re talking like someone who was probably the best in the league at just upping the team’s rebounding percentage while he was on the floor. I mean, like looking at it, every year he’s in the the top. I mean, the the the lowest he really slipped was like 87th in the last few years. So, they were racking up all kinds of rebounds with him on the floor. Um, I don’t know if we’re going to get that from Miles Turner, but yeah, at the very least, like I I don’t think it’s going to suffer too greatly, at least as on the defensive end. Um, there’s one other team that I do want to briefly touch on and then there’s one question I have for you and one last piece of business to wrap a longstanding talking point up. We’ll get to that conversation coming up next. Time now to talk to you about our friends over at Open Phone. If you’re running a business, you know that every miss call is money left on the table. Think about the last time you had an urgent need. maybe for a plumber or a service provider. If the first person you called didn’t answer, you probably didn’t wait. You moved on. And that’s why you need Open Phone. Open Phone is the number one business phone system built to streamline and scale your customer communications all from an app on your phone or computer. It lets you manage business calls and texts from a single app. Offers a shared inbox feature which proves to be a gamecher. You or your team can jump into any conversation instantly without missing a beat. And their AI agent handles after hours calls, answers common questions, and captures leads so you never miss a customer. Open Phone is offering our listeners 20% off your first 6 months at openphone.com/lockedonba. That’s openphone.comlockedonba. And if you have existing numbers with another service, Open Phone will port them over at no extra charge. Open Phone, no missed calls, no missed customers. All right. So, to wrap the bigs conversation, the last team um that I think is worth mentioning, speaking of Brook Lopez, is the Clippers where you got Zubots, you got Brook Lopez coming in behind him. Um Kawhi Leonard is going to play four at times for them. They brought in John Collins, they still have Nick Batum. Derek Jones is another guy similar to the Ognian Anobi. very OG light, but similar to that conversation, he’s going to play on the perimeter. He can play some four as well. So, they’re an interesting one. I think the only thing with them is they have some uh fresh legs on the perimeter that can take on different, but they’re kind of closer to the we can only play this one way. If you’re going with Zubots and Lopez as your fives and even some of the other names we mentioned for the fours like Nick Batum um you’re suddenly accumulating a lot of guys who are at 12 13 years in the league and in the mid30s kind of like uh Bucks West you know or at least recent Bucks you have Harden Paul Beal Leonard uh think about that team in 2019 Right. Um, but I I yeah, I I it I think you’re right. It’s I it’s a it’s a it’s a limited style of play um when you have Zubat and Lopez and it works. I mean like Zubat is I think one of the best defensive big men in the league and Lopez I think compliments him very well. However, I don’t like the idea of going small if I’m that team. I mean, Zubat’s, yeah, you you can you could convince me, you could sell me on playing him in some closing lineups, right? But if they would like to get someone else out on the perimeter to help Kawaii out like a Chris Dunn or a Batum or Derek Jones and they want that guy to play, you know, some three or four and they’re going to slide Collins up to the the five. I I don’t think that’s that’s great for them. That’s not a great look. I just don’t think like I I think a team like for example Denver like in the playoffs like they would have no trouble uh with that kind of a a lineup. Yeah. I I don’t frankly know um where I stand on John Collins or what to make of him either. I mean you can make the argument of well it’s been what four years since he’s played really competitive basketball but even in those years those were his best. But you could still like there’s parts of this game that I like, there’s parts that I don’t so much. So, he’s got to be one of the more interesting players to to keep an eye on throughout the course of the season. Um, we had Camille and I had mentioned kind of propping the Bucks up against two other teams earlier in the week that one of those teams may have the worst front court in the league. I don’t know if that’s the case anymore after a move that they just made on Tuesday night. They trade George Nyang. A being the Celtics trade George Nyang uh to the Jazz in their trade exception. So, Niang and two second rounders go to Utah and then they use the open roster spot to sign Chris Bucher, who was a name that was very popular with Bucks Reddit and Bucks Twitter before Miles Turner, before we knew this is a possibility. And we were trying to look at, okay, let’s get younger and have rim protectors and maybe guys that you could develop into like a very Brook Lopez light version. That was a name that popped up frequently. I’m I I think very light be very light. Yeah. Yeah. Light is is is the key word here. I’ve I’ve never been too much of a believer in Bouche. I mean, he’s just skinny as a rail. Obviously, he’s long and he shoots and can shoot threes. He can shoot. I I just Yeah. Like I would never ever play him at at the five. And I think he was getting a fair amount of run at the five in in Toronto over the years. it. Yeah, just I I I mean him, the Masqueta, Luca Garza, Tilman. Uh I still think it’s still up there. One of the worst front courts in the league at this point. Um I’m not sure. I mean, who who’s worse than that? Like even like the the Nets have like the Claxton, right? Yeah. I I still think the Celtics are quiet quitting this season. Yeah. Not openly saying it, but you look at that front court and it’s um Jaylen first round pick this year. They do. Okay. So, all the more reason where it’s like Jaylen, I think you’re why don’t you set out the next 10 games here or Derek, same story. Maybe even trade Derek White that I that’s just the vibe I get looking at the makeup of uh this Celtics roster. But certainly not a team in that conversation we were talking about with with the Bucks. So yeah, like the Warriors team like between um after KD and uh and after uh play the Christmas Day Milwaukee Warriors, right? That one. Yeah, the the Eric Pascal and D’Angelo Russell Warriors uh tanking their way to uh James Wiseman, but um maybe it’ll go better for Boston. So, we’re both We’re both in the top five. Probably somewhere around like three. In the top three for the B. I got to put him in the top three for sure. Probably. Yeah, I would put him just to be safe at at three here. Um, I’m gonna put you on the spot with this one, but one of the things I I kicked around and we’ll still get to with an upcoming mailbag with Camille and Frank, but um, is there a guy that that you would say on this roster for the Bucks is most likely to be a firsttime all-star? You know, I was listening to you and Camille talk about this the other day, and my first instinct, um, I’m still going to go with, even though you talked about Turner, and we’ll go with him, I actually think it might be KPJ, it might be Kevin Cory Jr. Um, just because I think he has the highest upside. Yeah, he he’s got the highest ceiling right now. like looking around the east like in terms of like the allstar picture. I mean, okay, had the had we been operating under the system a few years ago where they weren’t just picking like uh bigs um and they actually picked centers. Sure. I mean like Roy Hibbert made some all-star teams Jamal Mcloire like Buck Legend, right? Um, but you you look at like the front court in in the East right now, even without like Tatum, you still got Bam, you still have uh Towns, you still have um Yeah, Jaylen Brown is listed as a front court player. Uh Cade Cunningham, Mobly, he made the All-Star team. Um Jared Allen maybe. Yeah, Jared Allen made it one year. Um, you got to think like Bero if he’s healthy and and oh Janobi a name that we talked about if he’s he’s healthy leading into the All-Star discussion. He’s I mean I suppose it depends how much she scores. I mean I think for for Miles Turner to make the Allstar team like first of all the Bucks are going to have to at you know close to the break have I think one of the best two or three records in the in the East and and Miles Turner is going to have to be averaging like 20 points a game. And you look at his career numbers, I know you and Camille talked about this, like the block, right? Yeah. 18 to 17 points a game. Um, in the two years before this one, he was at 15.6 last year. Part of it is like he was never in Indiana used as like a primary scoring option. Like he he had even like as he was starting to like rise into, you know, by his like third or fourth year into like a I mean, he was starting to the fourth time that he popped up in trade rumors, right? Exactly. Like they were already using um his backups a bonus a bit more. Um and then he he of course joined the starting lineup. Go back to Victor Oladipo as well. Um Boon Bghdanovich, these guys were um more shouldering more of an offensive load. And in recent years, yeah, like it that that switched over to obviously Seakkum, but even someone like Obi Toppin was like more of a an offensive focal point for them until the Seakum trade. So, I mean, if if he were given more of a volume, like I mean, per 36, he’s never in most recent years, he’s had up around like 15 14 to 15 shots per 36. Um that would have to I think for him to be like a 20 point game score that’s gonna have to go up like yeah significantly. Um so I just I don’t see that happening. Like the two things I said Bucks have like the one of the top three records in the East and he’s averaging 20 points a game. I think the first one is more likely than the second one. So I think it’s Kevin Porter Jr. just because I I think his the range of his outcomes I think is huge. like I could see him be like finding that that that that 18 to 20 point a game form and maybe even more. I know some people are optimistic he could he could find another like gear um just because of what he’s shown and how he’s so young. I think that that’s possible, but I also think it’s possible that like he looks a little bit more like the guy who was playing for the Clippers at the beginning of last year. It’s just such a wide range of outcomes for him. I think there’s going to be some bad with a lot of good. I think there’s going to be more good than bad, but there’s going to be some bad. Um, I do think he is the most likely Kevin Porter Jr. to average 20 points per game behind Giannis on this team. Um, and yeah, the Miles Turner one, I didn’t really love it when I kind of landed on that, but it just felt like, well, I think we know what he’s going to be consistently. And if the Bucks are one of the better teams in the league, but more importantly, if they have a really good defense and we’re seeing a ton of rim protection from Miles Turner, that’s one of the things that would sway because the rebounding numbers aren’t going to be there. He may not average 20 points. That would be the only way to to really enter that conversation. um for me in my eyes at least and I think just it’s going to be easier to make um the all-star game as a guard next year now that that Dame has left the conference Hallebertton’s not going to be playing. So uh like yeah Maxi uh coming back. Um also like someone like Darius Garland who uh I believe he made it last year as well. He he he’s going to be he may be hurt for a bit to start the year it sounds like. Um, so yeah, your competition in that backcourt, it’s kind of looking like obviously like you’ve got Jaylen Brunson and Donovan Mitchell at the at the top, but then Trey Young, Darius Garland, uh, I I guess Maxi, maybe Derek White, um, yeah, Tyler Herro. It’s not as deep in the back court these days in in the East as it has been in recent years. Um, the the last thing to touch on, and I know the last time we talked about this, there is a decent amount of feedback, and I hear you, and I get it, there’s a decent amount of feedback of, let’s move on, we don’t care. Um, and by the way, Daryus Garland did was named an all-star last year. But, um, the story that came out from Jamal Collier on ESPN on Tuesday, who of course is, unless anything’s changed, but he he has been the longtime Central Division ESPN reporter. And, uh, he has a story up on the front page of the NBA header on ESPN.com on Damen Lillard’s return to Portland. And um I’ll let people read the article. It’s a lot of what we have already discussed, but there’s a lot of, you know, Dame just never wanted to leave Portland. And I think one of the more interesting things was Dame himself saying when things didn’t work out to find a trade to Miami, the longer it went on and the closer it got to the season starting and he started working out again, he should have made it clear and communicated, but he didn’t with Joe Cronin. You know what? Let’s just scrap the trade plans. I’m back here to stay. And I wish I would have never left. I mean, that’s fine. And I none of us can argue otherwise. Dame was nothing but professional. I don’t think Dame approached it as I don’t want to be here and I’m not going to try. I don’t believe any of that happened. But I do think the important parts of all of this and this article coming out now, ironically, one day after something else started to bubble up, is I said it at the time and I think it remains even more true now. This is the cautionary tale for Giannis to look at the situation that Dame left. Went to another team to chase a championship. Didn’t work out. Everybody’s on team Giannis now. And you you I’m not saying everybody was like Dame sucked or move on from Dane. But there was more of that than there was Giannis. And that’s what could be behind door number two. So again, there’s nothing of substance to say Giannis is mulling his future. I know the reports are out there, but to me, this is the thing. Keep looking at this because this is what could happen. It doesn’t always work out. The reports that are coming from from shams, I’m I’m just convinced that it’s a it’s just some front office member in I don’t know, Miami, New York, like wherever. um who’s just saying like, well, he he he hasn’t made any sort of decision yet, so like he hasn’t publicly said like my guys are telling me he hasn’t told them. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Well, yeah. And like he he doesn’t need to tell the Bucks like I’m staying because he’s under contract. Contract. I mean, he can really just like all he can do tomorrow. Yeah. Yeah. He can just ask for a trade is what he can do. And if he doesn’t do that, then he’s just on the team, right? Um, so the I don’t think any of that is coming from like a source close to Giannis. Certainly, I don’t think that that exists has I if if it does, I don’t think Shams has a connection with it. Like I I was thinking about I I was thinking about this yesterday morning like the the clients that Giannis’s agent, Alex Seratus, has it’s not a big list. It’s not a a very high-profile list. Really, the the main two guys you’d see in recent years who are like big time free agents or just like wellestablished players are Bam Adobayio and Cam Thomas. And I just was looking up like, you know, what has Shams broken about those two players over the years and there’s been nothing of note. Maybe just like, oh, he signed an extension, he’s injured, like just standard news. Um, so stuff that the agents will tell them like we’re we’re extending, you know, with this team. It’s not as if I I think someone like Haynes actually did have a a closer connection with Giannis. Um, or at least like, you know, maybe when Dame was in Milwaukee. Yeah. And then I I mean, I know that he is cousins of some degree with Giannis’s wife, but um I don’t know how close they are. Uh, I just don’t I don’t take what what Shams is saying uh at his word. I do take what Giannis is saying at his word. And what Giannis is saying is like that he wants to be in Milwaukee for the rest of his career. So, and he said that two days ago. So, I’m I’m going with that. I’m going with what the man himself said. And that like I suppose that for many is the frustrating part is like what when he was on Ice show speeds live stream like yeah probably probably be there. Um probably and then what was it that he was same type of deal yesterday two days ago where he was talking about his routine and signing autographs and had to cut it short because I want a 15 to 20 year career and somebody yells out all in Milwaukee and Yeah. All in Milwaukee baby. Um, the wink and the smile, you know. Yeah. I mean, I look, you have to play this somewhat similar. We can nitpick parts of it, but somewhat similar to how Giannis is doing it when you’re in this spot. It’s it’s basically the LeBron playbook and the superstar playbook, but not quite as extreme as LeBron took it with Cleveland, especially down the stretch of like, okay, like you still got to buy the cow here. Like I’m not just giving Yeah, I got to keep some semblance of pressure on you here and make sure that we’re still rowing in the right direction. But I I just don’t think there is a quote unquote source close to Giannis that’s going to get info and relay it out to any reporter, not just Shams, anyone. Yeah, I agree with you totally. Um, so all we have to do is just like see what Giannis does and what he says. And all of those have indicated he’s not going anywhere anytime soon, like you know, at least for the next like several months. No. And I mean, again, just to circle back to it, I think the dame thing is like ultimately a good thing in that regard because like it is it is another thing to look at to say like grass isn’t always greener. Yeah, I I guess it isn’t a guarantee to work out, especially in this CBA where, you know, whoever would acquire Giannis, you probably have a similar contract. I know you got to package together similar deals to trade out for him. But Giannis is probably coming into some place that has another established star, which adds its own level of trickiness that we’ve talked about on this show before, but it also makes it complicated capwise and puts you basically right back in the spot that you were at for the last couple of years here in Milwaukee. it. I think we’re at least until this like maybe this current CBA gets renegotiated, but um we maybe are just kind of like towards the end. We’re certainly towards the end of like teams having three max players, but hell even two. I mean, looking around at like teams that have two max guys right now, um I mean it’s Boston and one of them is hurt. Uh like who who else? I mean, I’m talking like by max, it’s like I I I mean like over um like 50 million, which is now kind of becoming the max because now something in the 40s maybe doesn’t look quite as bad, but I guess maybe uh depending on what happens with LeBron, um maybe LA will be one of them. Yeah. And I mean, it’s not quite that level, but Orlando is going to be very interesting to watch these next couple years because they have they got to pay those guys. Three guys that are one is in the 30s, but the other three are in the 40 millions. They will be soon. I mean, fortunately for them, those guys are all in rookie scale extensions. So, you got Paulo on the rookie scale right now. Like that’s the only way I think it’s going to work to have multiple Max guys like like OKC is going to have fun basically. Right. Exactly. Like uh I I can’t see um you know I can’t I can’t see like maybe maybe Denver is maybe the only other team with with Murray on on a max. That’s that’s about it. Like I and I just I I wonder if we’re just not going to see like teams just going to max like they they max one guy and then like they’re not going to max anyone else who can get the I guess the super max certainly. Um or just like the the seven to nine year max the the 30% of the cap like I’m not sure we’ll see that much either. Yeah. Um cuz OKC has it starting next year, right? With Chets, the 26 season. That’s when they all kick in. Yeah, Chets kicks in, Jaylen’s kicks in, and and Shaes kicks in the year after that. That’s when he goes up to 60 million. But you’ll have those three guys all at 40 million. So, I mean, we’re just it’s it’s basically threeear windows from here on out is what you have because at some point extensions are going to kick in and then it’s going to get really expensive. Um, and it’s just how much are you willing to it’s it’s not even the how much are you willing to pay the tax. How much do you already have built up around those guys that is playable on both ends of the floor because your options for tinkering and upgraded are severely limited. Then I think with OKC their saving grace is just going to be the sheer amount of first round picks they have. First round picks. Yeah. I mean the depth certainly they have they have depth but like they could maybe outlast that three-year window just cuz like those guys are so young and well and I Yeah. And I I mean I think we’re probably a year away from like Isaiah Hartenstein um Alex Caruso as guys that are like all right we got to trade these because we got somebody that’s ready to step in. He’s got a team option for 25 or 26 27 Hardinstein. So yeah, they can probably like replenish the the the rotation around their big three with guys who are aren’t as expensive or they can get on like, you know, a cheaper extension with bird rights or their rookie scale. Um by just throwing a whole bunch of first round picks at at whatever team. like if you know someone I don’t know I I’m just spitballing here but like let’s say you know they wanted to get like Derek White um yeah at at some point like they could just throw a couple first round picks at at Boston and and some matching salary whe whatever it is that they have and um you know that that that would get it done and he would be someone who could fit in like underneath all of these max level deals and be like a valuable contributor. to the team. It would have to be people like that maybe. I don’t know. Um like there are guys in like the 15 to 25 range basically like I don’t know if this is someone who would interest them but like Devin Vel that’s someone who I might be interested in if I was John Horus but a different story. Um so yeah leave your thoughts. Where would you rank the Bucks front court across the rest of the league? And remember, we’re just looking at the big, so your fours and uh fives. And if you have any thoughts on the cautionary tale or some of the comments made from Damian Lillard, we’re all ready to move on, but I think it just warranted a mention to see Spin is a little bit a bit too harsh, but to see some of uh what was put out there in the last uh Yeah, I don’t think some of what was put out there actually was what went down, especially back in summer of 2023. Uh that’ll do it for today’s show. We’ve mentioned the mailbag mailbag quite a bit. We got a ton of questions coming in. We are going to uh put together the first of those mailbag shows that will be coming your way, I believe tomorrow. So for Thursday, we’ll have part one. It’s going to take several parts. We’re not going to drop it all at once. Uh we’ll space it out a little bit, but in the meantime, continue to shoot your questions over to any of us and we’ll continue to add to an upcoming round. um to address your questions here throughout the course of the off season. That’ll do it for today though for Van. I’m Justin. We’ll talk with you guys once again tomorrow on Locked on Bucks.

Bucks’ frontcourt dominance: A game-changer for the NBA? Giannis and Turner form a formidable duo, but how do they stack up against the league’s elite?

Justin Garcia and Van Fayaz analyze Milwaukee’s revamped roster, comparing their frontcourt strength to powerhouses like the Cavaliers and Nuggets. The discussion covers potential All-Star candidates, with Kevin Porter Jr. and Myles Turner in the spotlight. Recent developments in Damian Lillard’s situation take center stage, sparking debate on Giannis Antetokounmpo’s future and team-building strategies under the current CBA.

Tune in for expert insights on the Bucks’ path to success and how recent NBA shakeups could reshape the league’s landscape.

0:00 Intro: Bucks’ frontcourt strength
5:29 Analyzing top NBA frontcourts
13:25 Other notable frontcourts in the league
19:55 Is frontcourt depth a competitive advantage?
24:36 Clippers’ frontcourt and aging roster concerns
29:52 Potential first-time All-Star on Bucks roster
37:45 Damian Lillard’s return to Portland story
44:58 NBA salary cap and max contract implications

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