EP. 543 – Good Good – Orlando Magic Podcast

EP. 543 – Good Good – Orlando Magic Podcast

This is the Sixth Man Show, an Orlando Magic podcast with your hosts Kevin Tucker and Jonathan Osborne covering all things Magic Basketball by fans for fans. Go Magic. What’s going on, Orlando Magic fans? You guys are back with the six-man show. Today is August 11th, 2025. Jonathan Osborne here as always joined by my co-host Kevin Tucker. Kevin, what is going on? Yo, what’s up? Here we are. What is this like the second week of August? Big week ahead for your Orlando Magic for the NBA schedule stuff coming out. Very exciting. Uh we got some international basketball’s already gotten underway. Germany and France and Tristan and France, I should say, uh for Germany have already gotten some friendlies out of the way. So, like basketball’s ramping up. It’s very exciting. How are you doing? I am doing well. Doing well for the most part. I’m a little annoyed. You might be thinking like, how could you possibly find something to be annoyed about in, you know, the middle of August about, you know, the NBA, like nothing’s really going on, but something has been announced. Uh, Shams reported, I think this was on Friday, that the NBA Christmas Day for 2025 on ABC and ESPN, per sources, the following matchups, and we’re assuming this is, you know, probably in order, Cleveland Cavaliers at New York Knicks, San Antonio Spurs at Oklahoma City Thunder, Houston Rockets at the LA Lakers, Dallas Mavericks at the Golden State Warriors, and the Minnesota Timberwolves at the Denver Nuggets. Now, not a shock that the Orlando Magic are not listed on the Christmas Day schedule, but when we have three teams who have accomplished, you know, just about as much as the Magic, maybe a little bit more if you’re talking about the Houston Rockets. Um, but when we talk about the San Antonio Spurs and the Dallas Mavericks being on the Christmas Day schedule, one, I understand the league has already predetermined that Wemby is the next face of the NBA and he’s the next chosen one and he’s going to run the league for the next 15 years. I understand they’re doing all of that, but this dude hasn’t even made the playoffs. when he was deemed out for the rest of the season last year. San Antonio was like the 11th seed, like maybe 12th seed if I’m remembering correctly, like at best. And then the Dallas Mavericks, who you might say, oh well, you know, they have Anthony Davis and they have Kyrie Irving. Sure, now they have Cooper Flag. Kyrie Irving tore his ACL in March. He’s probably not going to be most likely not going to be back by Christmas. And given the health history of Anthony Davis the last seven years, there’s like a 50% chance maybe that he’s going to be healthy enough to play on that game and the fact that of course it’s the number one overall pick and you cannot convince me that had Cooper Flag not been drafted to the Dallas Mavericks this year, they would not be playing on Christmas Day. just cannot convince me that that would be the case, especially given the injury to Kyrie Irving and the fact that we are now, you know, three seasons in, three seasons and some change now at this point. Um, where Adam Silver has done absolutely nothing to promote Paulo Berrow and Fron Ver and this young Orlando Magic team. It is one of the more stupid dumb things that I have witnessed as a biased Orlando Magic fan in quite a while. The fact that Paulo was legitimately the number one overall pick by no like close measure is he not the very best player of that draft. Allstar our allstar already was on like all NBA type of trajectory last year. We add Desmond Bane, you have Fron Vagger, you have these exciting players and yet we’re getting Victor Ramyama who has done absolutely nothing in the league and of course Anthony Davis and Cooper flag. I get that it’s Dallas, but of course they have a Christmas Day game. I’m I’m just over it. Yeah. Yeah, I’m I’m with you. The the Wimi thing on paper bothers me I think a little bit more than the the Mavericks thing. Like I hear what you’re saying. I I do think the Cooper flag factor, you know, was a part of the decision to have the Mavericks on. But again, I I do still think about Anthony Davis and it Dallas is a gigantic market and all that kind of stuff. But the the Wimby stuff that that bothers me a little more because like you said, it’s just not a winning team. Uh again, they they’re they’re figuring to be a very strong upand cominging young team with a lot of, you know, but those are a lot of adjectives you can use to describe the Magic. and the Magic are probably I mean they already have proven themselves more than the Spurs team, right? And so that one’s a little frustrating. What I took away from this whole announcement, which they also announced, not announced, leaked quote unquote sources from Shams, who works for ESPN, aka we know it’s the real thing. um also leaked opening night schedule, which this one is interesting combined because they uh came up with the two opening night games, which is Houston at OKC and Golden State at the Lakers. Combine that with the five games you just mentioned for Christmas and you’ll come to find out that of those seven matchups, only one of them features a team from the Eastern Conference, or technically it features two, but the other six are all Western Conference head-to-head showdowns, which if that is any indication, the schedule that comes out this week with which we’ll talk about in a little bit, but Tuesday they’re going to announce the NBA Cup games in theory. That’s the rumor that we’re hearing. And then Thursday will be the uh the NBA schedule. Um that’s if this is any indication, the NBA is leaning hard into the Western Conference this year. I guess because of injuries, right? Like I guess because of the Celtics thing and the Pacers thing and no one knows what the Sixers are going to be with Embiid and Paul George and all that kind of stuff. I mean, the list goes on. The Bucks obviously no Dame like uh not Dame anymore obviously because he’s gone but I I guess this is just what we’re in for this year like but again on the whole like not picking the Magic is one thing but to just zero in on two Eastern Conference teams I don’t know it’s it’s a little interesting. I hope it’s not a sign of things to come. But the only other thing I’ll say what they did get right though is the first game of the season ring ceremony for the Thunder. As annoying as they are, it’s Kevin Durant going to OKC to watch OKC lift their first banner. I mean, that you got to give the NBA some credit. They love themselves some drama, so I’ll give them that, I guess. But yeah, all in all, it’s just pretty annoying and uh definitely interesting if it’s a sign of things to come. Speaking of annoying, Kevin Durant’s reaction to that whole thing is one of the more annoying things that I’ve seen on social media in some time. Basically, there was a fan, which you know, KD likes to poke fun at fans and go back and forth at them on Twitter and stuff like that, but in this instance, I don’t think it needed to be done at Oklahoma City’s expense where, I’m paraphrasing, but essentially a fan asked like, “Hey, how does it feel to be going back to, you know, OKC and, you know, seeing them lift a banner that like you weren’t able to do there?” And he goes, “Well, it’s been 10 years. I I mean, it’s about time.” Yeah. Like first of all man obviously the nature in which he left you’re up 3 to1 in that series in 2016. You lose and then you go and you join that team and for two years obviously it’s the most stacked and most talented team we’ve ever seen. You won two titles and then you realize that hey it doesn’t matter like that I came to this team and won. I’m still not the guy getting the credit. This is still Steph Curry’s team. like even the GM after those championships was saying as much at the parade, right? And he’s realized like I’m I’m not going to get, you know, the love that I want or, you know, quote unquote deserve here. So now I think at at that point that’s when he he went to to Brooklyn at that point. But like just like you can how hard would it be to say like, “Oh, I don’t care. That’s awesome. I’m super happy for them.” Like he did the night that they won the title, right? Like he says like, “Congrats, all that kind of stuff.” How hard would it have been to just do that? Yeah, super lame. Yeah, it’s it’s very lame. And he kept going in the back and forth with some fans. And fan was like, “Yeah, you’re definitely a narcissist.” And his reply was something like, “Oh, yeah. Look at me. I’m I care more about myself than your fan base.” Yeah, exactly right. Or something like that. I don’t know. He’s just It’s childish. It’s I don’t know why he is the way he is. Like he’s one of the greatest players of all time. Probably the best scorer of all time. like right just like enjoy that, you know, like kind of be confident in that and I don’t know, maybe be a little less petty and I don’t know. I mean, look, at the end of the day, if it makes makes him laugh and he gets entertainment out of it, whatever. It’s just still not a good look, I think. But whatever. Hey, OKC fans, they get to enjoy the the ring ceremony right in front of his face and that’ll be interesting. Yeah. I think uh you know my biggest frustration with all the Christmas day and the opening you know season stuff is like sure like you know they are leaning you know you could say they’re leaning into like youth obviously like Oklahoma City like you’re going to have the defending champs play opening day and you know Christmas day or opening night and Christmas day but then like you still have Kevin Durant, Steph Curry and LeBron James all playing on opening night and all playing on Christmas Day. The criticism of the league the last couple of years has been they cannot let go of this era that is so clearly and obviously, you know, had and and past its time in KD, LeBron, Kevin Durant. I don’t know. Nobody’s arguing that those guys are like top five guys in the league. No, you know, at this point. Um, and obviously like we see like the up and cominging guys. We see the Lucas. We see, you know, obviously Joic, you know, we we see, uh, you know, Anthony Edwards is going to play on on Christmas Day. Like, they’re there, but it’s like, okay, well, what about like the next generation of guys? Well, hey, we see Victor Ramyama, we see Cooper Flag, there’s one, well, there’s a couple of guys that are like glaring, you know, like missing from this list and like Cade Cunningham and Paulo Banker. What do those guys have to do to prove to the league that hey, these are actually guys that are like worthy of marketing and and trying to, you know, grow this fan base for like the next generation of players. Like it it just it makes you it makes me like think of all the conspiracy theories and stuff like why does the Yeah, the Magic were really bad for a long time. It makes sense why the league didn’t market them and give them attention, but now it’s like the Magic legitimately might be in the finals this year. And like if they do make the finals or they make the Eastern Conference Finals for like 80% of the country, it’s going to be their first time ever watching these guys play. And that’s just insane at this point. Yeah, you you make a good point. Like Christmas to me feels like a perfect opportunity to basically like show the world some of the young up and cominging stars. In fact, like hit them against the the veterans, right? You you’re putting LeBron and Steph and uh I think KD’s or no, Houston doesn’t play on Yeah, they do. They play at LA. LeBron, Steph, KD, you’re putting them on on ABC on Christmas because that’s those are the people that that those are the guys that people still want to watch for whatever, you know, one reason or another. Put them against the young guy, you know, put put Magic at Rockets on Christmas Day. So, you can see Paulo versus KD. Like, I think back to man, I want to say 200 four, five, six, something like that. I remember some of the old Christmas day games. Like one of the games in my mind was like a Miami Heat Lakers Christmas Day game, which part of it was Shaq playing against the Lakers. Obviously, that’s part of it. But the other thing was it was Dwayne Wade against Kobe Bryant, right? A young Dwayne Wade against a much more veteran Kobe Bryant. And again, that’s just another opportunity for exposure for a young upand cominging NBA talent, you know, on the national stage. And so if you’re the NBA, don’t you feel like you should be doing that? Because if you just keep throwing out Steph, KD, LeBron, James Harden, whoever else, eventually those guys are going to be gone and then then what are you left with, right? Like it feels like a missed opportunity. But this has to be the last year that they ride these coattails as hard, I would think. Right. The only thing with LA, like they’ve got Luca and he he takes the quote unquote torch from LeBron when he inevitably leaves or retires, but outside of that, like Golden State really like I know Steph Steph can do it still, right? Like but it’s not it’s not a as common of an occurrence where he goes crazy. So I don’t know. Hopefully this is the last year of it, but uh yeah, it’s unfortunate. It it just feels like a a fumbling of the league’s future. Like it really does. Obviously, if they’ve signed the TV deals and everything like that, but when you keep leaning so hard into these three guys, especially like when they’re gone, like, okay, we’re still going to have Luca, we’ll have Jokic, we’ll have Anthony Edwards, we’ll have Giannis. Like outside of that, like who would you say are like not not in terms of like talent level superstars, but in terms of like you know household names like how many other guys in the league outside of you know those three you know vets and like figureheads of NBA history and then you have I mean honestly I would is Anthony Edwards even at that level yet? I really don’t think he is on the same level as like Luca and and Joic and and Giannis. Like he’s he’s kind of the the guy in the next generation that’s closest to that. I think you could put Sheay in that conversation as well, but you know, how many, you know, Adidas commercials does Anthony Edwards have? And Sheay more so last year, you know, with winning the title obviously in the MVP conversation, but I think if you just pull like random people on the street, like do you know who either of these guys are? They might be 50/50 both of them, but at one point like do you have to sit and look at like, hey, like we have the next 15 years of the league to worry about, not just the next three or four. And it’s just it’s so shortsighted in Adam Silver’s um the the job that he’s doing in my opinion. And it like it I am mostly annoyed because the Magic just get slighted time and time again and for the the Spurs and you know I do think even though they’re a big market, you know, Dallas to to have this game, maybe not Dallas, but especially the the Spurs and like people really getting fired up to watch the Cleveland Cavaliers, you know, on uh on national TV. I know they’re the one seed and everything, but you know, going out the way that they did, but it just it just feels like I think maybe my hopes were a little bit too high that like, oh, this year we’re going to get a little bit of attention and now I thought maybe we’d get, I don’t know, seven, eight nationally televised games. Now I’m thinking we might get three or four, maybe five if we’re lucky. Especially because like to your point, it just seems like Eastern Conference doesn’t exist here this year to Adam Silver and to these TV partners. Let’s just have nothing but nine and 10 o’clock games on national television. Why don’t we just do that? Yeah, it’s going to be interesting. Again, hopefully it’s not a sign of things to come. But all I know is like that there are more nationally televised windows this year and they’ve got to fill them with some 700 p.m. and 8:00 p.m. games, which means Eastern Conference nationally televised windows. Are we are we going to consider like Amazon Prime? I mean, everybody has Prime. I get that. But are we really gonna consider that like national TV or is it going to be like NBA TV adjacent? Like how is that going to be viewed? I It’s tough. I feel like Prime is going to be nationally televised. Like I’ll put it in the conversation. Peacock though, probably not. Peacock I I would put in the NBA TV adjacent category, but I think Prime Now is that going to be considered like an NBA on NBC kind of night or is Peacock going to be its own separate? It’ll be both. Like there will be obviously NBA on NBC, but there will be some of them will be exclusive Peacock broadcast like I think Monday night is Peacock night or something like that. I can’t remember off the top of my head, but yeah. So yeah, that’s NBA TV adjacent for me for sure. Yeah, I don’t know. Some people are going to be like, “Of course this is this is so stupid that you guys are talking about it.” But I just I just find it annoying the way that the league is. It’s it’s it’s not the league that we grew up with. That’s for sure. David David Stern would not think that this is the vibe. But all right. Anyways, enough complaining about that. This episode we are going to talk u you know a good bit about Jeff Welman and the the job that he and John Hammond, Anthony Parker, you know, their entire staff has done in the now what are we eight years into the the Jeff Welman. I think he’s going into the eighth year here. Wow. But before that, just a quick update for you. So, Germany had two games over the weekend here against Slovenia, just kind of international friendlies to get them going uh before they start in the uh Euro what do they call it? The Super Cup I think is is what it’s called. Uh but Germany on what day was that? Friday the eth. Yeah. What day was that? Friday the eth. Germany with the 103 to 89 win. Fron played really well in this game before fouling out. He had 18 points in 17 minutes. Was seven of 10 from the floor, including a pull-up three that he hit. Tristan Dilva played 17 minutes. Oh, that’s I’m sorry. He played Oscar D. Silva played 17 minutes. Tristan played almost 6 minutes. He had six points in 6 minutes and then he fouled out and Fron fouled out as well. You know me, Kevin. You know I like talking about the officiating, but this game was one of the rougher, not not just international games, but like basketball games in general to watch. These are 40-minute games, 10-minute quarters. And in this game, Slovenia took 54 free throws in four minutes compared to Germany’s 23 free throws. And they made 36 free throws. So at one point like over h like in the third quarter it was almost half of Slovenia’s points had come at the free throw line and just made for a poor viewing experience. We’ll we’ll say it that way. But uh Germany was without Mao Lo without Dennis Schroeder and without Daniel Ty in that game and they played Svenia and Germany played again on Sunday. Dennis Schroeder did play still no M low still no Daniel Ty but they won 80 to 70. Dennis Schroeder had 18 points in 24 minutes. Bronze had 17 points in 25 minutes. Was six of 13 from the floor. Didn’t hit a three. Um I’m hearing that there is footage of this game out there. I I was at church. I couldn’t watch this one live, so I’m trying to go back and watch that. And then Tristan had seven points in 21 minutes. Was two of seven from the floor. It does feel like Tristan is still very much like trying to figure out his role on this team. and it’s a a new coach. So, the lineups seem a little bit different from, you know, Gordy Herbert’s lineups the last few summers. So, it does feel like this Germany team is still, even though they’ve played a lot together, you know, we’re seeing other guys, I don’t know how much of it is due to some guys being out, but we’re seeing like David Kramer, um, Justice Holotsz, like having bigger roles as opposed to the last, you know, few summers that they did. So uh it feels like this Germany team is still trying to you know come together and um just kind of figure out you know the way essentially that they are going to play as they continue through this international cycle. So yes the DBB Super Cup starts on Friday at 12:00 Eastern Germany versus Turkey and then it’s Serbia versus somebody else that I’m forgetting right now. And basically the winners of those games will play each other in the Super Cup final. And then uh we’ve got like another, you know, week and a half or so of international friendlies. On the 21st and the 23rd, Germany will play Spain. And then August 27th, Germany kicks off their group stage in Euro Basket against Montenegro. So they’ll play Montenegro, Sweden, Lithuania, Germany, and I’m sorry, not Germany, Great Britain, and Finland in those matchups. And then I don’t know what’s going on here. No, this Okay, this is something totally different. That’s the World Cup in in November that I’m looking at. But so yeah, another week and a half or so and then um some more friendlies and then we’ll be into Euro Basket. Yeah, bring it on. And it was it was definitely exciting to watch. I caught some of that that first Slovenia game on Friday and there’s like it’s a it’s a warm-up. It’s a friendly for a lot of these guys. It’s our first organized basketball in many months and yet there’s already a lot of chippiness out there which I think is always fun. It adds a little bit of a spice for us neutral fans, at least somewhat neutral. Uh but yeah, lots of guys, you know, going back and forth and but I will say Luca the the rumors are true. The dude has thinned out. The dude is looking young and spry again. And uh Nico Harrison, look out cuz I think he’s coming for uh for some revenge this year, which is kind of weird to say, but regardless, yeah, he’s thinned out. He’s looking good. But yeah, it’s it’s going to be fun. Uh fun Euro basket. uh session here coming up over the next several weeks. Um he’s already in mid mid-season form getting to the free throw line. So one thing that is true. Uh one thing I was going to add, we didn’t mention this earlier in the show, Jonathan, but uh because the NBA schedule is reportedly going to be released this week on Thursday. We are going to do a live show Thursday night. We’re thinking around 8:30 Eastern. Mhm. So, if you want to tune in live on YouTube, um obviously join us as we kind of break down the schedule, walk through it, see the highs, the lows, just our initial reactions. Uh you can join us for that. Again, that’ll be th assuming the schedule does come out on Thursday like all uh indications are pointing to. Then Thursday night at 8:30 and that will replace our like normal Thursday episode that you get, you know, when you wake up or whatever. So, Thursday night around 8:30 Eastern, we’ll go live on YouTube. Uh, and if you can’t watch it then or listen to it then, obviously we’ll upload it to all podcast platforms after that. But yeah, hope you can join us. Yeah, if the Atlanta Hawks social media team is to be trusted, we’re expecting I mean that’s really how we found out. I mean, I guess quote unquote found out. We’re hoping that it’s true. But yeah, they tweeted on Thursday like that the schedule’s coming out a week from that day, right? So that would then be this Thursday. So obviously every year like we spend a few hours kind of pouring over the schedule before you know we we jump on here to talk about it. So it’ll be fun to do a live show and to to go through that and talk about that with you all. Uh and then oh almost forgot to mention that Georgia also played not the Bulldogs but you know the the country Georgia played in an international friendly today against Lithuania. Haven’t been able to find a box score for that. Um, this year has been kind of weird with the Georgia friendlies. There hasn’t really been a lot of footage or a lot of box scores coming out of those games, but they lost 54 to 77. So, we don’t know how well Goa Batad played, but given the final score, I’m going to guess that he either didn’t play or didn’t really play all that well. Yeah, I believe he played because I think I need to double check. I thought I saw a picture earlier of let me let me I got to you know fact check myself live on a quick little uh x search here for goats see if anything I saw it was yeah shooting a three yeah Phil Rosman Orlando Magic Daily posted it from Georgia Basketball’s Instagram so yeah he did play and looks like he’s being guarded by Jonas Valenunis which would check out playing against Lithuania but yeah so they got smoked And who knows, maybe maybe Gole only played a few minutes, you know, in in those warm-ups because Georgia is going to have to rely on him heavily. So probably probably trying to, you know, pace Goa a little bit so he’s not so worn out by the time that that Euro basket starts. Yeah. We interrupt this episode to bring you a word from our friends over at Jam Hot Chicken. They are proudly serving the city beautiful. Jam Hot Chicken is bringing jams culture and hot chicken to the heart of Winter Park. Jam Hot Chicken is a Nashville and LA inspired hot chicken shack locally owned and operated in Winter Park, Florida. Find them over at 400 West New England Avenue, Sweet 13 in Hannibal Square. Be sure to follow them at Jamhotchick on all social media. Check them out at jamhotchickenickfl.com to access the menu, online ordering, music playlist, and all things jamhot. I also now have chicken wings, which if you have not had them, they are like the perfect combination of crispy and moist and juicy and tender and delicious. So, be sure to give those a try. If not, you can get the Sando or mine and Kevin’s personal favorite, the box. You can now order on Uber Eats and get it delivered locally. So, if you’re in Winter Park and you want to get Jam Hot Chicken delivered to your house or place of business, wherever you are, download the Uber Eats app. And when you stop by, let them know that your friends over at the Sixman Show sent you. The Sixman Show is also brought to you by Random Hustle, Gabe Gains, Gear 95 Shred, Next Snappa, and Emma. I said Emma because she has four exclamation points with her name, Emma. Shout out Emma. And shout out to all of our patrons. Those are five of our Hall of Fame and elite tier patrons. Those are the people that went to patreon.com/the6manshow and picked the tier that was right for them because they want to financially support the show. They believe in the mission of what we do and the fact that we want to raise up this Orlando Magic fan base to be an amazing fan base, loud, rowdy, active, informed, and they believe in that cause. And so you can join them as well. Again, patreon.com/the6man show. Pick the tier that works best for you. Lots of different benefits and perks that come with each tier. things like joining our Discord with a bunch of other Magic fans, uh ad free episodes for our Hall of Fame and elite tier patrons. So, if you don’t like us talking about, you know, all kinds of random stuff, you know, ads or uh the ads that are posted on the uh on podcasts or YouTube ads, ad free on Patreon as well. And so, again, all of that can be found at patreon.com/the6manshow. Big shout out to all of our patrons. And now, let’s get back to the episode. Okay, Kev, we have been planning to do this episode for like a couple of months here and it seems like every time we’re about to record this episode, either some type of news breaks or, you know, something changes and and we we’ve pivoted off of this a little bit, but we’ve been kind of keeping it in our back pocket. But just like I don’t know that we need to go through every single thing that Jeff Welman is has like in painstaking detail, you know, since the start of his tenure in I think it was May of 2017 when he and John Hammond were initially hired uh you know as general manager and president of basketball operations. But I think it’s important especially for newer Magic fans. We know that, you know, we have people who have just started, you know, paying attention and following to the magic for the last season or maybe two or three, even four or five or listening to the show for the last year or, you know, maybe two or three, but don’t really know like where the magic were in like the mid, you know, early to mid 201s. Um, and exactly like how the magic kind of got to where they were now. So, you’ve probably already heard like the, you know, the Spider-Man origin story, right? Like Peter Parker got bit by a spider, Uncle Ben dies, great power comes great responsibility, all that kind of stuff. Spoilers. Wow. Oh my god. Oh my goodness gracious. As if they haven’t made 17 movies of that exact sequence happening. Yeah. But basically like you know that the Magic went to the finals in in 0809 with Dwight Howard. um next year. I mean, literally blew up the team, brought not the entire team, but like key parts of that team to try to add a little bit more star power next to Dwight Howard. Um they lose in the Eastern Conference Finals the next year to the Boston Celtics. They go down 3 0, make it 2-3, and then they lose in game six. Uh and then like shortly thereafter, like Dwight Howard’s body, especially like his back started to break down and frustrated with the the team and and you know, maybe some stuff behind the scenes. Uh Dwight Howard essentially started to play this game of like, will I or won’t I leave? Like I want to be here. I don’t want to be here. Well, I only want to be here if you trade for the guys that I want on this team. Well, you did that. Actually, will I want to leave anyway? Actually, I’m still going to opt in. Oh, the magic kind of tricked me. I don’t exactly know what happened. Okay, now I really want to be traded for real this time. So, that trade and we’ll go all the way back to the summer of 2012 here. So, part of a 14 trade. I’m going to read through this. We don’t ne necessarily have to go through all the detail, but for everyone to understand, you know, kind of what happened. So, traded Moharkas was traded to Orlando from Philadelphia as part of a 14 trade. The Lakers traded Andrew Bayham to Philadelphia. Josh McRoberts and Christian Ayena to Orlando. Philadelphia traded Andre Igodala to Denver. Nikoluch to Orlando. And Mohawkless to Orlando. And Denver traded Aaron Aalo and Al Harrington to Orlando. Orlando traded Jason Richardson. Shout out to Jace Richardson, by the way. Look at that. That came full circle pretty quickly. Orlando traded Jason Richardson to Philadelphia. And Dwight Howard, Chris Duhan, and Earl Clark to Los Angeles. Orlando also received a second round draft pick from Denver, a first round pick from either Denver or New York. I believe that ended up being from Denver, if I remember correctly. and one protected future first round pick from each of the other three teams, the Nuggets, the 76ers, and the Lakers. I don’t exactly remember what happened with those picks, but basically this team pretty quickly went from Dwight Howard to Al Harrington, Aaron Aalo, um, Nicoluche, Mo Harkas, and Josh McRoberts. Oh, and Christian Ayena. I believe that’s everyone that came back in that deal. shocker. Not a shocker. That team was not very good that year in 2012. That year, the Magic in the Lottery, they win the second overall pick. Um, and and probably one of the like, if we go back and take a look at that 2013 draft class, Kev, it was like one of the worst years to have a high pick, right? Like there wasn’t a clear number one overall pick in that draft. And uh Anthony Bennett from was it Los Nevada? Where where did he I don’t remember exactly where he went to school, but Anthony Bennett was the number one overall pick and like legitimately might be the biggest bust in like of of the number one overall picks in NBA history. Yeah, he’s up there. Yeah, that that that was a tough draft. Like you said, terrible draft, but when you look back on it, Las Vegas, University of Nevada lost UNLV. I was wrong twice, but also right. Yeah, you’re you’re fine. But yeah, like when you look back on that draft, like obviously there are a couple guys later in the draft that ended up being quite good. But at the top of the draft of the guys that were there or not there I should say of the guys that were projected to be at the top of the draft, the Magic kind of did their best, right? Like if you look at the guys like you got to give them some credit for that I guess. But uh yeah, that was a miserable draft. Uh certainly one that will live in infamy for a long time. And like there are guys that came out of that draft obviously like Giannis Antakmpo, uh, Rudy Gobear, but in terms of like the the prospects at that time, it just wasn’t a very strong draft. Like I said, there wasn’t like a clear-cut number one. Like even at two, there were talks of like, oh well, should the Magic take Victor Oladipo or should they take Shabbaz Muhammad? Victor Odipo goes to Shabbaz Muhammad goes to Utah at 14. That just shows you like the range of that draft. And to be fair, like draft prospect and mocking I think has come a long way. Like how often do we say, “Oh, this guy could go number two,” but ends up like slipping to number 14. That was the year that Nerland’s Noel tore his ACL at Kentucky. Obviously, he slides a lot. Contavious Cwell Pope in that draft at number eight. CJ McCullum uh from this point future Orlando Magic Michael Cardell Williams was also in that draft as well. Um but like the Magic again, you know, essentially struggle that year. They end up with the number four overall pick the following year. Take Aaron Gordon. Uh also traded for Evan Fornier right before the draft, like earlier in the day that year. Traded for Evan Fornier and they also draft Alfred Payton. Uh, but they kind of got duped if you remember Rob Henghan. And and to be fair, I I guess probably should have led with this at this point for those of you who were not around then. We’re going all the way back to 2012, like during the Rob Henan era. This is not Jeff Weltman. Just wanted to also lay out kind of like the mess that they inherited in 2017. Um, but yeah, Philadelphia didn’t need a point guard. They had drafted Michael Carter Williams the year before. they somehow convinced Rob Hennean that they were going to draft Alfred Payeyton. So, the Magic had to give up like a first a future first round pick, their 2017 first round pick uh to be able to trade for Alfred Payeyton. Funny enough, when you look at the way that all of that kind of broke down, didn’t go super duper well back then. Um but then yeah, like basically like through 2014, 2015, 2016, the Magic are bad and just kind of floundering. um Jeff, not Jeff, Jake Fischer, uh you know, of I think at this point, you know, he’s with Bleacher Report, but a few years ago, he wrote a book, um Built to Lose that talked about like the NBA and like the the the tanking philosophy at that time. And there’s a part in the book where he writes about the Orlando Magic and like talking to people that were around the team at that time. Uh the way that they described it was a bunch of rats like climbing up a ladder like everybody just kind of climbing up on top of themselves because with the team dynamic of that time you know we had Evan Fornier, Alfred Payeyton, Mario Honia, Victor Oladipo, uh Tobias Harris, Aaron Gordon, right? And there wasn’t like a clear like hierarchy of that team. So you have all of these young guys who are trying to carve out a role for themselves and a career for themselves in the NBA and there was just not like a really like real strong sense of leadership on that team and in the organization at that time which s unsurprisingly just led to the magic like being really bad. It got to the point in the summer of 2016, this is also before the CBA that we’re in now. This was the CBA prior to that that 2016 year where there was the massive cap spike going into free agency. However, the night of the draft, the Magic traded Victor Oladipo, Ursan Iliova, and the rights to Demanis Aonis to the Oklahoma City Thunder for Serge Ibaka, which at the time was like, okay, like maybe Serge Ibaka, cuz if you remember, Kevin, I know you do, but if you’re listening, Sergey Ibaka was the guy that the Oklahoma City Thunder kept and decided to move on from James Harden. And then James Harden goes and pops off. So the thought is, well, maybe Sergio Baka is the next James Harden. He’s going to go to another team and, you know, become this great player. And so, yeah, what what were your thoughts that night? Cuz I remember seeing the Woge notification that the Magic were trading for Sergey Baka and then the next follow-up tweet to that was that it was for Victor Oladipo and whatever Sabonis was like the seventh pick or the 10th pick in that draft. Like, what was your reaction to that? Um, it’s hard. First off, much younger version of Kevin back then. You know, I like to think I’m a little more wise now, but at the time, I don’t know if it was copium or just my magic blue colored glasses or what, but like I I I was pretty excited, right? like I mean Sergio Baka very important part of a very good team in OKC and I thought you know what he has to offer are things that this team needs and so bring it on. Um obviously at the time we had no idea what Sabonis could become. You know obviously we hadn’t seen him. Uh, and obviously the thing that hurt was Victor Oleo, but people got to remember that was not the Victor Olipo that we ended up coming to know after he, you know, went to OKC in Indiana. Um, and so, yeah, all in all, I was like, Ibaka’s proven, he’s capable, he uh, obviously adds defense, which we did not have. And so, I was I was okay with it. I was on board. And obviously, that changed uh, very very quickly. One thing to mention as well, uh, at the time, you know, the Dwight move is made, all that kind of stuff. Uh, you know, Stan Van Gundy is fired. Jacques Vaughn is brought in at the beginning of Rob Henigan’s tenure. After a few seasons, obviously that doesn’t work out. They fire him in the middle of the season. Rob Bargo is like the interim coach for the rest of the year. And then after, who did we have? Did we go right from Jacques Vaughn to Frank Vogle? Yeah, I think it was Jacqu, Rob Bergo, sorry, James Bergo into Frank Vogle and then into or was it Scott Skyles and then Frank Vogle? It was Scott Skyles first, wasn’t it? Then we went to Frank Vogle and then from Frank Vogle to Steve Clifford. Yeah. Yep. So to to bring up that entire, you know, mess and and I’m I’m trying to go through these details to to show you if you weren’t around back then, like you think the Magic are joked on now and like disrespected now, like the Magic legitimately were one of the jokes of the league like period of time. Rightfully so. Yeah. Just the organization was was not being run all that well during this time. So they go from Jacqu Vaughn, then they go and they hire Scott Skyles and in the middle of this that you know 2015 2016 season there are rumors in January because I think we were 19 and 13 at the end of the year and then Alfred Payton gets hurt that January. I think the Magic go like 2 and 17 in the month of January, something crazy like that. And the rumors during that time were that Scott Sky Skyles tries to quit in the middle of the season and then we traded Tobias Harris for Ursan Ilasova and Brandon Jennings. There’s rumors that Scott Skyles and Tobias Harris didn’t get along in Milwaukee either. So then he quits at the end of the year. Then they bring Frank Vogel in. There’s the the trade, you know, um Victor Leadipo, Ursanilia Soovva, Deanna Sabonis for Sergea. Kevin, do you remember like there being any questions about like the legitimacy of Sergeyaka’s age? Because when we traded for him, allegedly he was 27 years old. Do you I remember being on like Reddit back in the day and people been like, well, you know, like from where he’s from sometimes like birth dates aren’t always like 100% accurate. Um, and the fact that he was done at 23 years old or I’m sorry, 33 years old in the NBA and he just did not look 27 years old. Yeah. You know, like physically and like the way that he moved his time in Orlando. He only played 56 games that season before he was traded to Toronto, by the way. Um, 30 minutes a game, 15 points, shot 48% from the floor, 6.8 rebounds, 1.6 blocks. Like the counting stats aren’t that bad, but if you watch those games during that time, it was never more obvious that a dude did not care, was just here collecting a paycheck and just didn’t like was not thrilled to be in Orlando as as Sergbaka was. Um then that off season there’s money everywhere. Money is flowing for every team in the league. I think there was somewhere between like60 to $80 million of additional cap space that each team had due to the cap spike. So DJ Austinine uh signs a 4-year $29 million deal with the Orlando Magic, which actually turned out to be pretty good value. Jeff Green signs a one-year $15 million deal. And I don’t know which of these is No, I do know which one is worse, but both of these are just bad contracts. And that’s going to be a lot from me given the words that I’m about to say. But Bismak Byombo four-year $72 million contract after we, you know, the the Sergey Baka trade happens and you still have Miklovuchevich on the roster at this time and Bismak Bambbo had like a a decent playoff series for Toronto against the Cleveland Cavaliers this series, which they still lost by the way, but Bismac Biombo made like a couple of blocks that I remember in that series and apparently everybody thought he was like a starting caliber center, But Evan Fornier signs a five-year $85 million contract with the Magic in which the fifth year was a player option. When you’re paying Evans Forier 17 $18 million a year, the fact that you were not able to negotiate either a team contract, not giving him that fifth year, but letting him say, “No, I need a fifth year player option in that contract to me was one of the crazier things that we saw during that time. And then, you know, there’s no surprise that the Magic were just not very good that year in that 2016 2017 season. Now, fast forward to May of 2017. This is where uh Rob Henan is fired. Jeff Welman, John Hammond are brought in as the president of basketball operations and and general manager. What do you remember like your feelings around the organization at that time and like what your reaction was to that 2 three-year period and then going into like the Welman Hammond era? Yeah. I mean, I don’t necessarily remember specific reactions, but I just remember being like, “Bro, please save us. Like, please desperate like desperation. Please fix this mess.” Uh cuz that’s what it was. It was a mess. And um I had been sounds weird to say I had felt like I had kind of just been strung along by this front office, you know, believing in, you know, hoping for the best from them, believing in them, and then each and every turn, each and every move, just not any good and some worse than the previous ones. And so, yeah, out with Henigan was great with that. And then at that point, it’s just like whoever comes in next, I don’t care who, save us, please. And hey, we’re going to talk about it. He’s kind of done that. You know, it’s been a long journey, but look, it’s better than the Henan era. That’s for sure. Now, the trade for um in in the Sergey Baka trade when we traded him to Toronto. I know that Terrence Ross was part of that trade. I also think that we gave up a pick that ended up was that the pick that ended up being like Shay Gil just Alexander like there’s something crazy that was there was a pick that was part of that deal that turned into maybe it wasn’t maybe I’m thinking of of the wrong guy with with Shay but there’s there’s a pick that was included in that deal. Maybe I’m thinking it was Tyrese Maxi. I’m pretty sure that’s or no, Tyrese Maxi was the pick that was included in the trade for Markel Folultz. I’m misremembering a few of the the the details here, but later that year, so yeah, Terrence Ross is traded to Orlando with a 207 first round pick lottery protected for Sergey Baka. And they come in in May of 2017 and basically they’re talking about like we have to evaluate, right? because they come into this mess where they have these big contracts already on the books in Evan Fornier, in Bismac, Byombo. They have kind of this like, you know, collection of of not incredible, but like interesting young talent, right? You have Alfred Peyton, you have Mario Honia, you know, on that roster. They declined Mario Honia’s contract for that next year. The writing was kind of on the wall there. But just to bring back some names, Kev, to let people know like who was on this roster, this is a team that roster Jody Meeks, CJ Watson, Mario Honia, Domion Rudes, Steven Zimmerman, Patricio Gino, and Marcus Georgees Hunt. Those are some strong like throwback pulls here. Uh, also um still being paid at that time were CJ Wilcox and Arnz Onaku. like this is this is these were the the kind of times that we were going through. So Jeff Welman and John Hammond, they come into this team in 2017 and they say, “Hey, salary cap stuff that’s going on isn’t exactly great. We don’t have a ton of money. We also don’t have a ton of talent on this team.” So instead of just like coming in and cleaning house, they basically took that first year to like really evaluate to see what they had, what they didn’t have, and then at the end of that 2017 2018 season, uh, they decided to move on from Frank Bogle and bring Steve Clifford in. Now, we don’t have, you know, any hard evidence of this, but it seems like with the Steve Clifford hire and some of the moves that were then made that it it almost seemed like there was kind of like a win now mandate like, hey, the team’s been bad for a long time. We kind of need to do whatever we need to do like to make the playoffs and, you know, for this team to to, you know, be competent. So, 2017, they draft Jonathan Isaac. Next off seasonason they fire Frank Bogle, bring in Steve Clifford, they draft Mo Bomba there as well. Wave Shelvin Mack who was the assist leader uh for that previous season also. Uh and then Jiren Grant gets traded to Orlando from Chicago as part of a three-team trade. The Magic traded Bism Bambbo and a 2019 second round pick to Charlotte. Uh, Charlotte trades Julian Stone to Chicago and Charlotte trades Timothy Mosgov and a 2020 second round pick to Orlando. This was essentially a salary dump off of Bismac Bombo because he was so bad and the contract was so bad. Now, kind of like a 10,000 IQ play by the front office because Tiffany Mozoff’s contract, the Magic end up getting off of that because he had like an injury that was deemed like career ending. I forget if it was a knee or a hamstring or something like that, but they salary dump Bismac Bombo and then essentially get out of the Timothy Mosgov contract, which I think did he get from the Lakers or the Cavaliers? Like Mosgov got like a crazy paycheck a couple of off seasons before that, but the Magic end up like being able to just kind of get out of that contract kind of, you know, scot-free. But the Magic, you know, they’re having like an okay type of season. I think they were like nine or 10 games below 500. Then they make the trade for Markel Folultz in 2019 where they trade Jonathan Simmons who the kind of maybe one of the first early missteps of the Hen that Henan the Welman era where they signed Jonathan Simmons that offseason. He comes off of a pretty solid um playoff series with the San Antonio Spurs. Magic signed him in free agency. I don’t remember. I was literally like doing laps around my workplace the day that we signed Jonathan Simmons. I was super hyped up. I don’t know if you were as excited for the Jonathan Simmons signing. No, I wasn’t. But I mean, it look, he had a great San Antonio, but yeah, I can’t say I was running laps around anything about that. But yes, it was it was a nice signing. I was a little bit younger um in those days as well. But yeah, we trade Jonathan Simmons and the 2020 first round pick, top 20 protected, uh, which I believe ended up being the Tyrese Maxi pick, uh, for Markel Folultz, who at this time had a lot of injuries. There was still a lot of promise, you know, around the league. But right around this time, the Magic go on this crazy run. going to end the season 22-9 over the last 31 games, make the playoffs, win the first game against Toronto in that 2019 playoff series before, you know, basically getting swept the rest of the way there. Um, and we’re we kind of it was the Magic were like kind of stuck at that time where hey, we had a little bit of success here. You end the season really strong and then they kind of like double down into that era. They they draft Chuma Okke that summer. Uh you know who had he been healthy, he’s probably a lottery pick, but he slid to the Magic. I believe that was like the 16th or the 19th pick somewhere around there if I’m remembering correctly. You sign Alfukaminu to a three-year $29 million deal. That was definitely a misstep. Um they resigned Nikoluch to a 4-year hundred million deal. He was coming off of an all-star season and then signed Terrence Ross to a 4-year $54 million contract. uh for him to resign in Orlando. Uh and then that 2019 2020 season like going relatively well. Then Jonathan Isaac tears his knee up. I forget it was like a posterior lateral corner injury if I believe correctly to that left knee on New Year’s Day 2020. Everyone knows a few months later the whole world shuts down. Magic come back in the bubble. Jonathan Isaac tears his ACL a couple of games into that. Kyle Lowry takes out Aaron Gordon and his hamstring in one of the Magic’s last exhibition games. Loser. The Magic win game one against the Milwaukee Bucks again. Well, not the Bucks, but they win one game one again. Get, you know, gentleman swept after that point again. And then uh a few um a few weeks after the season ends, they resign Jonathan Isaac, resign Markel Folultz. Some people have, you know, said that, you know, those deals were probably a little bit premature at the time given the fact that, you know, Jonathan Isaac is coming off the injury. And then, um, when the season starts back up in December of 2020, Magic are six and two and they’re in their ninth game of the season and Markel Folz tears his ACL. So, now we have both of the guys that we just signed extensions to, both of those guys now coming off the ACL’s. We know that Jonathan Isaac missed basically three years. Markeel Folultz missed almost two years, you know, miss a full season, then comes back at the end of that next season. And then that year, that 2021 season, that’s the trade deadline where we move on from Nikoluch, Aaron Gordon, Evan Forier, bring in guys like Wendell Carter Jr., Gary Harris, Otto Porter, RJ Hampton, also the trade rights to France Vagner, Jet Howard. You get through that season, they sign Mo Vagner, by the way, at the end of that season and then you bring in France Vagner and Jaylen Suggs in that draft and that kind of brings us to where we are now. Like you all, you know, have mostly been caught up to this point, but you know, there are a lot of people who have always said, “Oh, the Magic are too patient. They wait too long. They do this. They do that.” But like going back through all of this, Kev, it it really does feel like they they kind of needed to be patient. Like there are, you know, three or four like major things that they could probably go back and and do differently, you know, if they had a time machine and could fix those things. Like the Bismac, not the Bismac beyond, but the Alfred Aminu signing, definitely the Jonathan Simmons signing. Uh and then like just how early they’ve negotiated, you know, some extensions. We can even talk about, you know, the Jonathan Isaac, you know, extension that, you know, that was signed, um, you know, a summer ago or the Wendell Carter Jr., you know, extension, you know, that was signed as well. Like the front office hasn’t exactly been perfect. Um, but like we talked about this a lot the last few months. They needed to have a good off season this summer. They did and and now they seem to be, you know, in, you know, pretty good expectation to make a run at the East this year. Yeah, I I think you you’re talking about patience. Like there it feels like there have been several opportunities over especially the last few years for the Magic to really put push their chips in or take a gamble or go for it. and they have just stood pat sometimes to the frustration of Magic fans, but uh Jeff Welman, formerly John Hammond and now Anthony Barker and their whole team just continued to stay the course. And I think at some level you got to give them credit for it because the the deals that may or may not have been available, whether we’re talking about trades or signings or whatever, over the past handful of years, um, sure, maybe they would have gotten some news, been a little splashy, but would they have put this team in a better spot to contend for a championship than they than it is right now? I I would that that would surprise me if if that’s the case. Obviously, we’ll never know, but that would surprise me if there were opportunities out there to make the team better than it is right now. And again, we’ve said many times this summer, we got to see this team play basketball before we’re going to sit here and talk about how great it is or how good it could be or whatever. But, uh, in the meantime, you you got to show some appreciation to the front office. Again, sometimes maybe frustrated us fans by sitting still. Obviously, the most recent example being this past trade deadline. But if you look at the the full body of work, where this team was when they inherited it eight years ago, which is crazy to think about, versus where it is now, it’s night and day. Has it taken a long time? Yeah. Has it taken too long? Maybe. But here we are. And again, the future may be brighter now than it has ever been in the history of this franchise. And so, um, for that, I’ll I’ll give him some kudos. And obviously, let’s see how this team does and then maybe they’ll get even more kudos this time next year. And I I just think about, you know, like the the amount of patience that they’ve had. Um but when you look around the league, right, and and you start looking at other franchises and like, hey, like what if we weren’t super patient and just like kept trying to go in and like make move after move after move. when you see teams that, you know, over the course of the last eight years or maybe the last decade that have really tried to do that that have never truly found themselves in in like contention for like the East for example, like maybe you could argue like those John Wall and Bradley Beal teams, but did we ever really feel like those guys like those teams could make a run at the East or making a run at the title? Like probably not. like Detroit, not really. Charlotte, definitely not. Chicago, definitely not. You look at the West, like you look at Sacramento, certainly not. Sacramento, like the Hornets, you know, had a couple of years like in the Anthony Davis prime, but like since then have really been floundering a lot. you know, San Antonio like post Tim Duncan and and Kawawaii and those like they’ve been kind of going in on on different versions of those teams when we talk about like LaMarcus Aldridge and like Demar D Rose and like they’ve been trying to figure it out but like haven’t quite been able to get there. So, or like Atlanta, right? like Atlanta, you know, they have the ECF kind of miracle run, you know, a couple of years ago, but then they kind of decided to like double down into that with like the DeJonte Murray deal and stuff like that and it it just hasn’t worked out. So sometimes like patience is necessary and I’m not I’m not trying to say that every single move that they’ve done is has worked out perfectly and hindsight is always going to be 2020 and we might look back 5 years from now and say like hey you know like we should have went in even earlier or hey the the time that we went all in it was too early right like we we might still say stuff like that but right now for what we know and what we have and what’s kind of in front of us I I I mean, yeah, you you can nitpick isn’t the right word because there are legitimate criticisms of some of the things that they’ve done, but after all of that to find yourself, like you said, I mean, you put it perfectly, the future of the Magic being as bright as it’s ever been in the 3, what are we going into the 37th year? Yeah. Yeah. The 37th year here, like it’s it’s really hard to be mad at what what they’ve done, right? like all those times, you know, if we go back three, four years ago where, oh my gosh, I can’t believe like not that I was saying this, but people were saying, I can’t believe we’re still have this Aaron Gordon, Vouch, Evan Fornier team, and so on and so forth, and oh, we we just keep missing the lottery, and oh, why didn’t we trade for this guy? Why didn’t we try to get that guy? And you can go up and down the list. If you would have told yourself like, hey, if you can wait until the 2025 2026 season, the Magic are going to be like fringe title contenders, I think we all would have went, all right, we’ll we’ll be fine. We can wait a little bit longer, you know? So, again, there are a lot of fair criticisms to like things that the front office has or has not done. But by and large, for what they inherited, I do think it was reasonable. the kind of waiting out period and like they went through a good three years of kind of like that evaluation period before they said okay we’ve really got to you know mix this up and change things up and now they have been like cultivating and and growing this team and it’s just kind of at the point where it might be ready to flourish so they said okay let’s go allin so we kind of just have to say look you guys have done a great job up to this point we got to see how this plays out yeah so I mean I know we We graded them earlier this offseason. We graded a lot of people, but like how would you grade them after eight years now, how would you grade this off season overall? Obviously knowing maybe you could take a copout answer of incomplete because the biggest test is about to happen. But so far, knowing what we know, seeing what we’ve seen, how would you grade them for seeing what this team was, the shape that the organization was in, how many GMs do we see, you know, every cuz GMs aren’t fired necessarily every offseason, but like definitely every off every other offseason, every two, three years. Like some team just like keep cycling guys in and cycling guys out and like most GMs that take jobs don’t ever get especially that take jobs in the state that this team was in don’t ever get to where this team is currently. So like I’m an A minus from like what they had what they inherited to what they’ve been able to build. Yeah. Ask me in 5 years, but right now I I think it’s an A minus. Yeah. I mean, that’s that’s right in line with what I was thinking. A or A minus. Like, cuz I think something we haven’t even talked about, but I think maybe almost equally as important as putting together a winning basketball team. It is just about changing the culture. Like the the culture of the organization is just totally different. And usually when we talk about culture within the Magic, we talk about Coach Mosley and and the the culture that he has instilled in the players and the coaching staff and and that’s part of it. First off, that culture doesn’t exist without the front office hiring him. So there’s that. But I mean even beyond that there’s just a culture of professionalism and a culture of it requires someone like a Jeff Welman, John Hammond and that whole team to go to the ownership to go to the Devos family and say hey these are the things that are important the trends that are on the way when it comes to player development and technology and you know all those kinds of things the medical side of it. this these are the things we need. Hey, we need a new training center, right? Like all of these things, it takes people leading that charge. And so for that reason as well, I think Welman and company deserve a lot of credit. They they were at the forefront of all of that. Uh the player performance and all that kind of stuff. And so yeah, I mean the more I talk myself into it, I’m I’m probably at an A. Like maybe not even a A minus, just an A. Just when I think about again like when when I say culture like the idea before Wellman, right? Like you talk about the mid20s. It it just wasn’t a place that people wanted to be. It wasn’t a place that was taken seriously because I don’t think the organization took themselves seriously. It was just kind of like everyone was here, you play some games, but more importantly, you get a paycheck and you go home. Whereas the culture shift across the organization has been this is a place people want to be number one. Number two, we’re this is we’re going to be professionals here. Like there are high expectations, there are high character requirements and if if you don’t meet those things, then you just don’t get to be a part of it, whether you’re a player, coach, whatever. And all that starts at the top with with Welman and Hammond and now Anthony Parker. So, I give them all credit. It’s an A for me. And obviously, like I said, the biggest test though is still to come. These next 5 years, they’re going to make or break the whole thing. As as harsh as that sounds, it’s true. And it’s hard for us to say exactly. Like a lot of what we’re saying is like purely speculation cuz we don’t know what was happening behind the scenes and like what exactly caused the the the change in mindset, right? Cuz it’s not just like president of basketball operations. Like I I genuinely think the Magic like organizationwide the last, you know, six, seven years, there’s been a massive shift. Like the Orlando Magic social media team, as great as they are, there was a time where where they weren’t. And I don’t know how many folks who are still involved today were involved back then, but you might not be around, but we were making social media posts that Shelvin Mack was our assist leader during one year because he he and he had like what was it? 2.7 assists per game that year. And it was like, guys, even if this is statistically true, this is not something that you post. And it was only true because of a trade. That’s the other thing. like there was a trade I I can’t even remember who it was earlier in the season but uh by the time the season and that was happen like right at the deadline so by the time that uh you know the deadline happens in February the season ends in April less than two months and then it’s Shelvin Mac I think it was like forest the game or whatever it maybe it was 2.7 I don’t remember dude it was brutally low but it’s like even if it’s true why post it but anyway yeah I digress trying to now now I need to go back and and find it. I want to say that was like the 2014 2015 season or was was Shelvin Mack after that. Was that like the 1516 or 1617 season? I think it was blocking it out of our our memories. Oh my Okay. Yeah. So, he’s he actually stopped playing in so it was the 1718 season and he had 3.9 assists. 3.9 assists, excuse me. Yeah. still really really bad. Yeah. By every possible stat statistic. But yeah, like around that time like there was a massive shift and it was because Alfred Payton was moved that year. Was that to I think it was to Phoenix. I want to say Alfred Payeyton was was moved on that year. But um but yeah, just like across the board the organization there’s just been such a shift in that time and yeah, it it directly coincides like at least the timing of it with Jeff Welman and uh John coming aboard and you know they had to deal with a lot a coach that and a roster that they inherited. Then it seems like there was like a hey you guys probably should just try to win some games, make the playoffs. They move on from him. They go to Frank, not Frank Bogle, they go to Steve Clifford. And then after it’s so clearly this team has like reached its ceiling and they decide, hey, we’re going to pivot. Steve Clifford doesn’t want to be a part of that and they have to pivot and find a coach. And like they really needed to hit with that coaching hire. And to this point, like they absolutely 100% did. Like they they’ve gotten some things wrong, but they’ve also got a lot of the really hard really important things right. Like they talk in in NFL all the time about how the most important thing is to find a quarterback. In the NBA, the most important thing is to find a superstar and the Magic pretty much have two and Paulo and and Fron Vagner. So like again, you go back to, you know, the 2017 summer and you look at what they inherited and where they got to now. I I think probably most of the guys that get these jobs in the league don’t get the magic to where they are right now. Yeah. Like I maybe you wouldn’t say that they’re one of the, you know, and it’s hard for me to gauge these things, but would you say that they’re a a top five front office? I don’t know, but like they’re they’re certainly in the the top third of the league. I I think I think you would have to to estimate. And they’ve they’ve built a team that, you know, we’re all hoping might be able to find themselves in a Eastern Conference or NBA Finals. Yeah. Maybe even winning the whole freaking thing. you know, maybe not this year, but you know, in the the next couple of years, you know, that’s a legitimate, you know, hope and and and goal that I think we we should all have. So, I hope this is helpful. I know it’s a lot of just kind of rambling and all over the place, but there’s, you know, at least a hundred transactions that have taken place, you know, in in those uh in those seven years. So, wanted to to try to bring people up to speed if you haven’t been around that long, but also remind people of like, hey, remember how bad it actually used to be? Talking about people not wanting to be here like 2013, 14 to like 2017, it wasn’t even always fun to go to games. No, it was bad. Yeah, I didn’t want to be here some of the time. Yeah, it was it was tough. Really bad. You you think some of the you know Boston you know coming to town or the Lakers coming to town is bad now. It used to be absolutely brutal, right? Especially because the Pelicans would come here and there wouldn’t be a ton of Magic fans, right? Well, that’s the hard thing. Like back then, at least these days, you go to a game and yeah, there’s going to be fans from the other teams, but the Magic fans feel like we have a chance or we’re going to we’re going to win. Back then, Magic fans had zero belief and rightfully so. So, like you just like who wants to go to a game to be out cheered and watch your team get outclassed at home? It’s not fun. It’s miserable. It was brutal. And it was year after year after year. I was looking at it earlier. I already closed that window unfortunately. But the the coaching records from I think it was 2013 to 2016 was like like a 30% or 29% uh win percentage for over over like three years. Not one three years sounds about right. It was brutal. Absolutely terrible. Um, but also unrelated, as I was looking through that list, this season, assuming he makes it the whole season, Jamal Mosley will become not not the the coach with the most, you know, games coached, but the most consecutive games coached this season because Brian Hill had two stints and his combined two stints still make him will make him uh the the coach with the most uh coaching appearances for the Magic. But Jamal Mosi will have the most consecutive games coached as the head coach of the Orlando Magic. I think in game I think I was looking at 68. So towards the end of the season. But hey, if he if he sticks around that long, that’ll be awesome. Well, the other thing is this season he is going to move into third like most wins in Magic coaching history. He’s 27 games behind Doc Rivers right now. Yeah. And then, you know, if he sticks around another two to three years, like he’ll he’ll end up most likely end up being the most like winningest coach in Magic history and the guy with the most games coached and all that kind of stuff. Like if we look at Jacques Vaughn, so Jacqu Vaughn had a 26.9% win percentage. James Bgo only coached 30 games, but he had a 33%. Scott Skyles had a 42.7%. Frank Vogle had a 32.9%. Steve Clifford had a 42.3% win percentage. Brian Hill, Richie Autobato, Chuck Daly, Doc Rivers, Stan Van Gundy right now the only coaches in Magic history with above uh 50% win percentage. Yay. Jamal Mosley pro he’s got 40 more losses than he does wins. So, not this year, but like as early as next year, he could become the the next guy on that list. I mean, 62 and 20, not not out not out of the realm of possibility. Get those 40 wins there, you know, 40 wins better. But so like by realistically by like January, yeah, of 2027, he could crack, you know, 50%, you know, win percentage in in his time here. This is totally unrelated to this topic and I don’t want to spend a lot of time on it. I know we got to wrap this episode up, but someday Jonathan I I’ve never had this thought until right now. There is a there is a world in which Jamal Mosley ends up with a statue outside of Kia Center. Yeah. like if he keeps us up, if he, you know, if this team wins and this team does the things we want want them to do, wins a championship or two or three, Jamal Mosley is the head coach for 10 years, the winningest coach ever, still beloved by fans and all that kind of stuff. I had never thought of that. A Jamal Mosley statue outside Kia Center is is a thing that could happen. Isn’t that cool? I think it’s cool. I love Mosley. I’m trying to think what the I mean, you never know what kind of iconic things are are going to happen, but I just picture him in like a you know, three quarter or a half zip or like a long sleeve with like the paper hanging out of the back pocket of him just like yelling, you know, from from the sideline like Yeah. But yeah, I mean there there’s a a real possibility that Jamal Mosley ends up being like the greatest coach in Magic history. Yeah, he’s on his way. Obviously, a lot has to happen, but he’s on that trajectory. And so, uh, yeah, we’ll see what happens, but that’d be fun. I’m trying to think here. Like, Rich Autobato obviously has the, you know, one of the best win percentages, but he only, you know, coached 33 games. Like, it’s obviously, you know, Sam Van Gundy, Brian Hill, a lot of people would argue, you know, one or the other. Obviously, like those guys are are one and two. after that it’s Chuck Daly and then I mean Doc Rivers you know the heart and Hustle has a strong argument there but I mean Jamal Mosley you know wins a couple playoff series and it feels like it’s Brian Stan and then Jamal yeah right I’d put Stan in front of Brian but yes I get your get your point and there’s going to be a lot of people who are going to comment under this I’ve been watching the team since 1989 definely Brian Hill here’s the thing you can say that all you But you have to count Brian Hill’s second stent, too. You can’t just ignore it. You can’t ignore it. But listen, all of that considered, dude is still sitting at a 58% win percentage. That’s fine. That’s great. He was also given a very, very good roster, you know, once upon a time. And Stan Van Gundy revolutionized the game of basketball in Orlando. I was going to say they literally went from Brian Hill to Stan Van Gundy there and within two years. Love Brian Hill, by the way. Love Brian Hill. I don’t want to turn this into a an argument between the two best coaches of all time, but anyway, I digress. Uh yeah, let’s see what Jamal can do. And then, you know, in terms of uh you know, obviously, you know, we’re talking, you know, John Gabriel, we’re talking Otis Smith, you know, Welman, you know, in company in that conversation for for best, you know, front office. I think that’s that’s another conversation obviously for another time. But anyways, folks, um I I was excited to do this episode and then in the middle of it, I’m like, man, I’m really rambling on a lot here. So, I hope that it was helpful and, you know, informational and, you know, also um informational. Is that even a word? Informative, you know, all that kind of stuff. But hope you guys enjoyed it. Um if nothing else, Kev, do we have anything else before we wrap this one up? I don’t think so. We’ll see you guys Thursday night. Again, assuming the schedule comes out Thursday, uh we’ll go live Thursday night, I think around 8:30 p.m. Eastern. Come join us. Come react to the schedule with us. We’ll get you guys involved in the chat and it’ll be fun. Which means no episode Thursday morning. So, we won’t record Wednesday if we are, you know, the schedule is going to come out when we think it is. Um we’re just not going to do that. And I mean, you’ll hear from us Thursday regardless because if the schedule doesn’t come out, we’ll be like, “Whoops.” and we’ll do something else, but we’ll definitely a live show on Thursday. So, be sure to tune in to that. So, all right, folks. Uh, thanks for tuning in. We’re going to go ahead and wrap this one up for Kevin Tucker. This has been Jonathan Osborne. You all have been listening to the Sixman Show, and we will catch you guys next time. See you. Thanks for listening to the Sixth Man Show. Be sure to subscribe on iTunes and Spotify to get new episodes downloaded directly to your phone. If you enjoyed the show, please take a minute to give us a five-star rating and a review. It helps out the show a lot. Follow us on Twitter, Instagram, and Facebook @ sixman show. We’ll catch you guys next time. Go Magic. Let’s go back.

1 week away from the schedule release? Maybe? We talk the latest international Magic games & the Jeff Weltman era so far.

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