Basketball Movie Club: Blue Chips
as the final buzzer sounded on the Pistons 2023 season. Two diehard fans, Mickey and Harry, each passed out and witnessed a vision. They were visited by Detroit’s very own mascot, Hooper, the stallion ablaze, who told them the only way the Pistons would ever win a championship again was if these two men started a podcast. To be clear, they said, “Do we really have to do this? I mean, aren’t there enough Pistons podcast already? Seems like this might be overkill.” But Hooper dunked on them right in their face and said, “Your team needs you.” He presented them with a prophecy. Now it is their duty to help Detroit rise again and become champions. The Order of the Blazing Horse. Welcome back to yet another episode of The Order of the Blazing Horse, your only Detroit Pistons podcast based on a mystical prophecy. I am one of those prophets. Touched by a horse, not a creepy way. In a very appropriate, in a very consensual, in a very ethereal, mental, inspirational way. Touched by Hooper, touched by a hoofer, uh, Harry Moros. Is that Is that fair? Out here in the Midwest, living my best life. Joined as always by my co-host, my co-prof, my man in the better coney cap. What’s going on, Mickey Jacobs? Glad to be with you. uh for episode 50. Harry 50, half a hund over here. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Thanks. Uh thanks for being with us everybody. Uh it’s it’s been a journey. Um not saying we singlehandedly uh were the reason for the Pistons turnaround. Uh a historic turnaround actually sort of as the prophecy foretold. There were a lot of factors. There were a lot of factors. There was internal improvement. There was coaching. There were uh veterans moves around the margins. But also we started a podcast um because Hooper said we had to and he touched us in as Harry mentioned a very appropriate, very consensual way in a very beneficial way it appears. I mean apparently we have the receipts. We really do. What do you say about that? We got receipts. We got the memes. We got the guests. I mean, how great a guest was Bo last week, by the way? So good, man. A legend. Truly a legend. And like props to you for for getting him. It was such a treat. Such a joint thing. It was fun. Uh, it was fun playing around in his sandbox, man. Coming up with a couple rhymes. Uh, and I know you as a as a former rap, maybe still maybe still practicing rapper, but uh, you’ve got some you’ve got some history in that arena. So, it was uh, it was really fun. He’s a he was a great hang. Yeah, that was that was awesome. Uh, glad to have him on. Uh, we’re open to hearing who you guys want us to have on the show as well because we’re just, you know, we’re reaching out to people that we like. We we’re reaching out to the community that we like. Hopefully, you’re enjoying the guest. I mean obviously you are otherwise you wouldn’t be here listening subscribing and if you are subscribing uh maybe it’d be great if you could if I can find this they know what to do. You got to take that you got to like you got to subscribe. You got to ring that little bell. You got to tell a friend. You got to you got to engage with us in the chat because those are episodes are always the best when we’re when we’re bouncing off you. We’re riffing off you. We’re putting putting the spotlight on you, the listener, because that’s what this is really all about. Uh so yeah, it’s it’s not that hard. We’re trying to crack triple digits. We’re we’re at half a maybe by episode 100, we’ll have 100 subscribers. But we’ll see. Either way, we’re going to keep we’re going to keep doing what we’re doing. I loved how last week B’s like, “Let’s get you to a thousand.” I was like, “Let’s get triple figgies, man. Let’s get in there.” Uh we’re we’re getting close. We’re at 89. If we can get up to that hundo mark, that’d be great. Uh if we could average two subscribers per episode, that’d be great. We’d be loving that uh at the moment. And you you know what? We we’re doing this for you. Actually, we’re really doing this for ourselves, but we’re really doing this for the Pistons. And Mickey, there hasn’t been all that much going on with the Pistons. There hasn’t been all that much going on in the NBA, which is why we’ve introduced this new segment that we’re going to kick off at the back half this episode. But there has been a little bit of Pistons news just as they say, as they say, across the uh Atlantic uh ocean. Uh is that right? Atlantic Ocean. I don’t know. I went to American school. Uh the the only real Pistons news, and it’s not even news, it’s more like rumbling. And it’s kind of a focus of what’s going on in the league, is Pistons are one of the few teams that still has two open roster spots. Like they don’t have enough uh players on their squad right now to be like eligible or whatever uh the rulings are. Uh, and to go along with that, there there’s been talk from Malik Beasley saying that he still feels confident that he’ll be back in Detroit this season. Mickey, I want to ask you, do you think it is realistic? And two, is that the wrestling move you’d be down to make? Um, you know, I think in theory we’d be able to get him for like what, seven million or less or something like that? like the vet vet minimum or whatever that number is. Um yeah, I saw some videos of him addressing some stuff. Um it was on Snapchat and I’m an adult so I don’t have a Snapchat but someone was very Is that a prerequisite? I got me one. You got you one? Are you Are you active on Are you snapping? TR truly I just followed Malik Beasley on Snapchat. Okay. Okay. And I’m not trying to dog anyone or mal any any grown men or women or anyone for for having a Snapchat. Um but yeah, he said he it’s funny because he said and this is all speculative. I don’t know anything. You don’t know anything. But uh he said like you know he hopes like everything will blow over or whatever. He also did he keeps saying I’m not a perfect person. I’ve made mistakes. That seems to be the recurring which is like maybe he’s just playing hoopistank at the gym. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe maybe we should see if that’s on his his uh gym playlist. I I’d be I’d be surprised, but it’s possible. But uh yeah, I don’t know, man. I’m I’m I love I I can’t stress enough how much I love Malik and what he did for us last season. There it would be different this season. First of all, because we’ve sort of made moves to replace him with Duncan. Yeah. Like Duncan’s gonna get minutes. He’s like something like two to three inches taller. I think a more dynamic player maybe, if not as prolific a shooter. Maybe he is as prolific a shooter or could be. I think historically Duncan Robinson’s a more prolific shooter than Malik Beasley. That’s crazy. With the last season as the exception. Okay. So, I think that’s like look, there’s always going to be injuries. He’d be a great guy to have on the roster. I also do think there’s like a like he Malik Beasley in the clips I saw described himself as having a chip on his shoulder and after coming off of his best career season, he wants to just like shut everybody up, but the noise is loud and Malik Beasley has proven to be rattable uh with with as as much as he loves to dish it out, he does not like to take it. We saw it with Giannis. We’ve seen it with other people. And I’m not going to lie, I’d be worried about just like the amount of trash talk that he would be on the receiving end, not just from players, but from opposing fans. I like if we could get him real cheap, I’m open to it. Roll the dice. I think I don’t know if I’d bet on so bad. Uh where are you at on it? It’s It’s touchy for me. I’m I’m I’m conflicted. I I remember everything from last season and how invaluable, not just valuable, invaluable he was like for the team as a vet presence, like how important he was to like Ron’s development and just like the team chemistry and the team energy, how important he was to fan energy with the shimmy and like just being a part of the community and like he he was very good. He’s better than any free agent that’s still available right now. Like Yeah. Like honestly, I I can’t think of a better player. The uh the cons would be that the roster is loaded with guard talent right now. Like you said, we kind of replaced him with uh Duncan, also kind of Caris, also kind of Ivy, but he’s good. like he’s he’s just good and he’s proven that he works here and if he if he beats the allegations, I think he should be rewarded for the season he had last year and I think he’s an important player to this team. So, while yeah, it’d be redundant. Sign him. Like, what what else are you going to do? And like if you do sign him, then you can make another trade with some of the other shooters at some point as well, right? Like you at the at the uh deadline you can make a trade with Duncan Robinson if that’s not working out. You can do it with Carris if that’s not working out. You can do with Ivy if that’s not working out. You do with Beasley if that’s not working out. Like it’s not what when was it a problem to have too many shooters on the Pistons like never once never once a problem. No. I I I’d take him back with open arms. I’m just I I my thing wasn’t like I don’t want him. My thing was just like I’m skeptical that it’ll happen even if the charges are dropped. I don’t know that like and maybe he would, but I don’t know that that’s like a Trajan move. Um, and I do think Duncan and Caris are more dynamic if not like as great of shooters or or at least not Caris. But I I love Malik and I can’t stress that enough. I think because Trejan was already planning on bringing him back in the first place, if there’s no legal repercussion or like threat of him being expelled from the league, it would be ridiculous not to bring him back, especially at a freaking discount. Like they’re holding like half for like half of what he was going to pay him. Yeah. Right. And they’re holding a roster spot. They’re clear there’s clearly a plan for that. Like there’s no reason to have two open roster spots at this point. So yeah, I think I think if he clears he’s back. That’s my guess. And I’d be I’d be thrilled to have him back because I think he had a great season. I think he’s a great fit on this team. And uh yeah, he’s going to he’s rattable, I suppose. But he’s also explosive. Like absolutely explosive. Yeah. And I’m I’m here for that. Like bring him back. I’m I’m I’d be super happy to have him here. And like I said, it’s good locker room business like that you’re rewarding players that showed out showed up that they showed out for your team. So I think that’s good for this team in general. And I Yeah, again I I can’t I can’t think of like what other player you’d want on the team. Like if you have to you have two spots, who are you going to get? What are you going to do with them? Trey Lyles, I guess. I don’t know, but that’s one spot. And then who else? Amir coffee maybe not too bad but like ain’t nobody got the Blake Beasley potential on this team and then if somebody gets injured then you’re all set also on top of that. So right that’s that’s the thing is uh yeah I I don’t think it would necessarily be in the same role that he had last season. Um but yeah I I like So you think like locker room benefit even post controversy if he clears? Yeah absolutely. I I think I think that’s not as much of a problem as as all that. Like, yeah, I’m sure he’ll be getting trash talk, but like there’s trash talk non-stop in the NBA no matter what anyway. And if he beats it, he beats it. He’s he’s there. And like people like, “Oh, you you know, they’re gambling.” It’s like, “Yeah, gambling. I’m going to shoot 323s on your ass, right?” Like, he’s got more to brag about than the failed controversy. If he can do anything close to what he did last season, uh he would be an asset to not just the Pistons, but any team. Oh, and by the way, he also hinted uh and this could be talk, this could be real, but he hinted that other teams were interested, too. And I would not be surprised, as you said, he is the best free agent still available. Yeah. And I think the Pistons can pay him more than any other team can. So, like that. And also, like I said, the Pistons didn’t go on a sp a spending spree, so they’re they’re okay. I I I expect if he’s cleared him to be back, and I’d be I’d be more than happy with that. Yeah. Uh, speaking of clear, it looks like another player has cleared a benchmark, if you will, and that’s Ron Holland has cleared the two the the two Bill mark. Pretty good. Yes, you sent this to me. So, give me the story here. Yes. Uh, this was funny because, uh, Ron Holland posted an Instagram story, and I I do have Instagram. Uh, I’ll I’ll own that. I’ll own that. Uh but uh he now is up 15 pounds from I guess previous season. He uh weighs coming in at a whopping 212. And I sent you this, you glanced at it, you thought maybe that was me on the scale. You thought maybe I was up several several dozen pounds. Um but no, it’s Ron Holland. He’s bulking up. He’s getting big. He’s doing all he’s he’s worked on the shot. He’s doing all the things we want him to do. uh like truly one of the most exciting X factors of the season. I’m really excited to see what what beefed out dog pound not dogpound junior anymore. Just just full-on dog pound off squad into the pit crew. Yeah, d I like that. I like that. No more no more terrier. No more terrier here. He’s so he’s gaining mass. He’s gaining size and he’s shooting better. [ __ ] look out, dude. Look out. Like I know I looking back on the draft last year uh because that was what the 2024 draft. Yes. Can you name the four players ahead of Ron Holland in that draft off the top of the dome? Steph Castle one right before. Huh? That that was right before. Yeah, that’s three. Mhm. Four. He was number four. He was number uh four, right? Um God, I’m blanking. This is so Shepard number threeep right went to the Rockets. Alex Sar number two went to the Wizards. Zachary Rishet went number one to the Hawks. Reese looking pretty good. He’s looking pretty good. I don’t know if he’s looking Ron good. Like I don’t either. I don’t I don’t know if any of those players are looking Ron good. I know people love Steph Castle, but the the question marks about Steph Castle shot are for real. And with Ron, people are saying like I mean the shot’s not going, but the shot looks good. And now it’s going and he’s big. Like this is exciting. I’m really like, look, he shot it great in summer league and you know I want more than anyone to believe that that’s not just like oh well he’s playing against G-Leaguers and whatever because like it doesn’t matter, right? Like he shot motion threes, he shot stepbacks, he shot catch and shoots. Like we’ve talked about it. Everyone’s talked about it. We’re we’re high on Holland. We we’re we’re breathing that that clean Holland air and uh we’re we’re just mowing down that Holland’s sauce. It’s too bad he doesn’t still have the 000 number because I’d call him H2ouble O at this point. Holland the second O. He’s wet, dude. I like that. I like that. There were a lot of good uh there were a lot of good double O nicknames, but uh whatever he wants to wear. I’ll tell you what, what happens what happens if Beasley comes back in terms of the number? I hope he takes double O. They just swap. Number swap. That’d be actually pretty cool. Uh that’s a fun chip on your shoulder number to have too. Do the Pistons don’t have a seven, right? That’s a Killian Hayes uh number seven. Is there? Yeah. It’s hanging in the rafters. Sorry. It’d be it’d be funny if they take the Raptors. It’d be funny if Bezley’s took like a seven or 21. I know that it was like sports betting that we’re talking about instead of like uh blackjack numbers or dice numbers. But like that’d be such a [ __ ] you to anybody watching. But yeah, I I am curious what number he’d take if he came back or because no way Ron’s giving up that five at this point. That’s his number. He went fifth. He is five. Do your thing, dude. Yeah, I’m super pumped about him. And so, yeah, I’m I was just going to say I’m really excited for the preseason because I think uh you know, I think our guys are going to play some preseason games, but it’s going to be guys like Ron that are really going to get I think extended run in that time and guys they want a better look at like I feel like in the past like we played a good Didn’t our starters like play a good amount of preseason because they didn’t have a lot of time in the offseason to like gel. So they they played I feel like Cade played a good amount of preseason games, but like at this point, dude’s a superstar. Like I don’t want him overdoing it in the preseason. Like I think that’s a great time to see, you know, it’s not like summer league, but I want to see what Ron’s got. I want to see how Ivy looks, you know? Like I just want to see like let’s get into some of the unknowns a little bit. Let’s see maybe if that JD shot. Let’s see if JD Power and Associates is uh is uh you know, stepping back. reach. Yeah, maybe. Maybe. Uh, but because I’m just saying if if ever there was a low stakes time to do it, but maybe they just want to like get right into their sets and just start start hitting the ground running. I I I don’t know. It’s been so long I kind of forget how preeason like it it varies. I I for for some of those points, I want to reiterate how much I’m open to and would like to see during shooting some threes in uh in preseason and just like as things going on. Uh because I I need people to remember there are only like legitimately three three and D fives like starting caliber fives in the NBA. Like not that many stretch fives in general in the NBA. So the chance of getting one is low. And when we’re talking about guys like Bam or Brook Lopez or Al Horford, uh when did they start shooting threes? not early in their career. That was a that was a much later development. So, it’s not like uh people saw them and like, oh, I think eventually they’ll stretch five guys. That got forced. They forced that issue and they succeeded in doing that issue. Jaylen Duran is 22 this year, 22 years old, shooting at some points like 77% from free throw. Like don’t you cannot convince me that there’s a better chance of landing a starting caliber stretch big in the draft when you’re expecting to be picking in the 20s in the draft. You can’t tell me that you expect there’s a higher chance of that happening when it has barely happened at all than Jaylen Dur being able to shoot threes in a game. Right. Speak it into existence. Man, I I uh look, it’s hard for me to like just given how long Beef Stew worked on extending his range and how little we saw him do that and just knowing what we know about JD being Kate’s favorite lob threat and just like favorite pick in general. Like, it’s hard for me to imagine us getting a lot of pick and pops, but but again, if ever there was a time to do it, it’s the preseason. I agree with you that the free throw percentage is encouraging. Um, and and you know, he practices it and you know, we got Fred Vincson. So, listen. Uh, some other little things I saw that are kind of fun. I saw Beef Stew taking kind of like motion halfcourt shots. What? Uh, like like kind of like running up to half court, catching the ball, drilling it like a few in a row. And like look, this is empty gym, you know, stuff. Let’s not like overreact to it. also saw I think Jaden Ivy did a camp and uh he looks good. I’m just saying I’m just saying he looks he looks like legs look good. I’m not I’m not saying he’s like doing like five on five or anything. But uh the reaction on Reddit was hilarious because people were like he’s looking explosive. I’m like he just dunked on a 10-year-old kid. Yeah, but he got he just yammed on that freaking creepy bit. You know what? No, I wanna I want to overreact with Reddit, dude. I wanna I want to enjoy I I just like seeing him healthy. Yeah, because it’s just when’s the last time you saw Jaden Ivy play basketball, man. I like seeing him healthy and happy. Like the get that get that positive vibe going on. The preseason does start the schedule came out. It starts October 6th for the Pistons against the Memphis Grizzlies at 8:00 p.m. in Memphis, no less. And then October 9th in Milwaukee. Time to be decided. October 14th at Cleveland at 7 PM and at home against Washington on October 16th on uh at yeah at 7 p.m. So those are four games that got scheduled. I I would love to see some Assar and Ron at the same time together on the court just to see what that looks like uh out there. Uh wouldn’t mind seeing some Danis in this thing uh as well. Why not? Uh re-uped on the two-way. Did he get Yeah, he got reuped on the two-way. Love it. So, there there’s that. He’s not even taking up a roster spot. So, like again, we still got the two uh the two out there. There’s this this team’s got a lot of flexibility and a lot of stuff to get excited for. Uh and I’m I’m here for it, man. What’s the What’s the thing you’re most looking forward to out of the preseason? I suppose I guess this applies to I mean, I want to see how Assar’s shot looks. I want to see if Ron Holland’s shot looks as good as it looked in summer league, but I also just want to see like if we see two minutes of Cade, Ivy, Assar, Tobias, and Duran. If we see two minutes and 1 second, we will have seen more time of that starting five playing together than we did all of last season when we ended the six seed and uh you know made a had a pretty good run uh in the first round. So that that’s what I’m looking forward to. What are what are you trying to see? I want to see how big Assar looks because we heard about it. I want to see I want to see if it looks like it. I saw I think I saw someone photoshop like Assaar over uh uh Brunson just like looking massive like Godzilla in I know I keep talking about Godzilla all the time, but Godzilla minus one where it’s just him chasing the boat and I was like he’s just such a [ __ ] beast in this photoshop. Yeah. Uh, but that’s that’s what I’m looking for. And I want to see this team kind of come out swinging and looking like the threat that Jeff Teague said that he thinks they are. He doesn’t think Orlando Magic are the team to be watching in the East. He thinks it’s the uh Detroit Pistons because they were those dudes last year and they’re better this year. And I I get it like I get the mentality that uh Orlando has been ahead of Detroit and that last year was like their injury fluke year or whatever. But I I must insist I think that two years ago, the Bondi Williams year is an aberrition. I I think that is uh it it’s so it was so crazy a year and the team players on the team weren’t as bad as the team looked. I just think that it that was a fault. The whole year was a fault. Not that they were uh really lagging behind it. Just see it just seemed like an anomaly almost uh for how this goes. And people are really pumping up the uh Atlanta Hawks. Atlanta was in the playin last year, right? What were they the like eight seed or something like that? They got an off injured center and they signed uh Nikquila Alexander Walker who will be coming off the bench. I agree they got better. Did they really get five seeds better plus exceeding the Pistons better? I don’t know. I don’t I don’t necessarily think so. I just think Detroit’s more well-rounded team and I think they have continuity. So, I’m excited to see them tear it up. just to have this conversation between those two teams that made, you know, some of the most interesting moves uh in the Eastern Conference. Who do you think will be seated higher, the Magic or the Hawks? The Magic. Yeah. Yeah. I I agree with you. I I think their moves make more even though they did more of a chip shove. And as much as I would have liked Nikquille Alexander Walker, um I think he’s like a really great difference maker on a team like the T-Wolves where, you know, they’ve that’s a that’s a really good team like already. Yeah. Um so he can come off the bench or or start, but like that I don’t know. I don’t know if if he’s going to move the needle as much with the Hawks just because I don’t think they’re quite as talented. And I think they’ve got some really interesting pieces. I’m excited to see Jaylen Johnson. It’ll be interesting seeing Trey with a spacing big if he can remain healthy. Um, but yeah, I don’t know. And Research, uh, like if he keeps improving, that’s interesting as well. But I don’t know. I just don’t I think the moves that the the Magic made just make more sense for them and are more substantial. Like I think they they the Desmond Bane thing, if that’s your guy, congrats. You went out and got him. And I I’m really still like I think the Tai Jones thing is like underrated. Yes. I I really I really think like he can do a lot and they’re already so strong defensively that like if he’s coming off the bench but like his two guard is Anthony Black who’s huge and a good defender like he can also shoot. Like I know Tai Jones isn’t a great defender but he doesn’t have to be because like everyone else is right. And that’s the Atlanta situation in the starting position, right? Like there Trey Young. Yeah. Yeah. So, and like really when it comes down to it, who who’s the best player added from those two teams? It’s it’s Dez Bane. He’s the he’s the best talent that was added for sure. So, I I just think and they were a better team to begin with anyway. it. I I think I think they’re ahead of Atlanta and I think Detroit is uh has the potential to be ahead of the Magic. I think I mean I know I’m a homer. We we’ve discussed it dope and all that, but I think Detroit really does have the uh the potential to be ahead of uh ahead of Orlando because Orlando’s offense has been miserable and there’s no guaranteeing that two players will make it that much better. Yeah. Yeah. And uh shout out Brian Winhorst who along with Jeff Teague was also uh just saying look out for the Pistons. Like it’s not a team that every but I mean it’s always like even after last season like it’s still like they didn’t make any huge moves but like they’re still scary. Like they still they got better like and I really just like if Ron’s uh summer league display is just like one example of the internal improvement that they’re going to make like I’m I’m really excited. Like I think Kade’s gonna get better. I think Ivy’s gonna get better. Um Duran, all these guys, of course, perhaps especially Assar. And I think them like figuring out how to utilize him more, you know, and figuring out how to to use him on offense in a way that makes sense. And now that he and Duran have a year, another year under their belt of playing together, they’re not necessarily going to be occupying those similar areas on the court or timing things better, knowing, you know, when someone’s going to cut and when someone’s going to go down low. So, I I’m very excited. I would still like a Trey Lyles. I heard you kind of speak about him earlier about Pistons legend Trey Lyles with a little bit of a little bit of a tone, Harry. I heard I heard the way you said his name like like like Trey Lyle and uh and I and I really do I distinctly remember it might have been the game where uh Ivy hit the gamewinner over uh Dear Fox. I was like I was like watch out for Trey Lyles, dude. You were like and I was like spacing bigs tend to give us the business like or like spacing fours. Uh, same could be said for uh Chris Buché who has like I feel like he probably averages at least two or three threes against us like in his in his career or at least in his recent career. And uh you know the Larry Nance Juniors of the world. These are these backup fours who you’re like yeah whatever. And then they you know are in double digits by the time the night is over with like six boards. So, so it’s it’s it’s uh not to be understated. As as excited as I am about Ron’s improvement and his uh bulking, uh I I think we could still use a little depth, a little a little cheap depth uh just to have there with like the ability to shoot like 30 plus from three. I’m I’m with you on that. I I I am absolutely with you. I’m I’m for them uh going after and acquiring Trey Lyles. I also wanted to ask you, do you think that part of the reason Ryan’s getting big is because he he watched the broadcast and he heard the announcers talking about Jaylen Duran. He wants them to be talking about him in that his rippling his his vascular his his just his Oh no, no, not sinny. His his muscles upon muscles upon muscles. He’s got biceps on his biceps. Look at those. Look at those shoulders. That’s a man’s body. It’s so funny. It’s It’s actually not that much of an exaggeration. I don’t think I think a lot of the things that we’ve said have been direct quotes. Verbatim. So gross. Yeah. It’s really weird. It’s really weird. I hope people know that we’re joking when we do this, but uh I don’t know. I hope I just hope they think that we’re thirsty. And we are. Hey. Hey. Kool-Aid. Yeah, we Lord knows we drank a bunch of Pistons Kool-Aid a couple episodes ago. So, uh yeah. No, I I I think I think he just knows too like people talk like when Ron Holland like people talk about him like oh he’s like still skinny like like it’s like a different kind of body shaming or like obsessing over his like and by the way I think like 15 pound I think he’s still going to be quick like he’s so he’s so quick and uh he like just like he runs and gets in front of his his man like he’s really good in transition on defense. as well. And uh yeah, dude, combine that with the finishing such a allaround like has the potential to be such an all-around talent. Like like truly like a Jaylen Brown or even bigger like a bigger Jaylen Brown. Um yeah, it’ll be interesting because I mean like it’s cool he’s been hit in the weight room and stuff, but like he’s also just like so young just gonna fill out. Yeah. Yeah. It’s crazy. So young. He’s too young for Snapchat. It’s crazy. I’m too old for Snapchat. He’s too young for Snapchat. And Malik Beasley right in that sweet spot. He’s right in that. And we we were too young, both of us were too young to be alive when I think the movie that we watched for our first episode of Basketball Movie Club. Uh, is that right? What What year did this come out or 97? Oh, I thought it was later. I thought it was like 97. Hold on. Or 94. Blue. 94. Oh, man. I was I was a little toddler. I was a little toddler. You were kicking around. You were You were causing havoc. Yeah. Yeah. I was What? I was like a pre-teen at tween. Tween hairy. Not quite tween. We’ll call the pre-teen. Uh preteen. Preine. Yeah. Well, not not quite that old when this movie came out. And so like because this is a new segment and we’re going to be doing this throughout the summer and throughout like the off season because why not? We both have cinema backgrounds. It’s how we wet. It’s like we’re in the dog days of summer. We we we love talking about pop cultures. We we talk about music. We talk about TV. We figure let’s uh let’s watch a bunch of basketball movies, talk about them. Maybe eventually when we have a bunch of them stacked up, maybe do a bracket, something like that. I don’t know. We’re just we’re just talking about it. So, you know, you you probably like basketball movies, too. You like basketball. You are listening to this podcast. So, you should probably like you should subscribe. You should uh engage with us in the chat. You should tell a friend about us. You should ding that little bell for notifications. But uh I had never seen Blue Chips before. Uh and this was a treat. This was a this was a treat. I did not know that this was directed by um Freriedman, right? Frkin Frekin. Yeah. Who did uh The Exorcist dude? The Exorcist. Um hold on. The French Connection. French Connection. Massive massive director. Um, right. Yeah, sorcerer. Um, to live and die in LA. Cruising. I really love Killer Joe was a very good um but uh legend legendary director. I got to shout out my buddy Frank because he told me about uh the freaking directing The Exorcist and I was like what? Cuz uh I I didn’t know that. And then watching this movie the second time I was like that makes so much sense watching the way this is for me the second time that I’ve seen it. Uh, and the first time I saw it, I was just watching for basketball. This time I was like actually watching it as a uh a film eater as you were. And the cinematography matches up. So, please please proceed. I just had to interrupt and shot. No, no, not at all. But, uh, I if if I mean I don’t think my film friends are going to my Chicago film friends are listening to this, but if they were, they’d dog me for how long it took me to come up with his credits. But uh Freriedken is a Chicago guy and uh in the scene where they go to Chicago, you like see the the El train and stuff and I’m like, “Oh, this is so his shit.” Um but I really dug it and I thought it was very relevant uh to basketball today both in terms of uh money controlling everything and then just like the whole conversation surrounding NIL. Uh so it was it was really and of course Shaq. Um but uh what did you think? What were your thoughts? So, I thought the same thing. One, the Chicago scene. My wife walked in. She goes, “Is that Chicago?” Right. Just the first establishing shot. And I was like, “Yeah, good for you.” Because she’s not she’s not from Chicago or anything. I I a little secret. I was born in Chicago. I lived in Chicago for a good chunk of change there as a young individ. Uh but she knew she knew right away. The home of Butch McCrae aka Penny Hardway. Uh, I do have a little uh little little Penny doll somewhere. I think you can see it. That is so cool because I just watched that 30 for30 fairly recently with Shaq and Penny. Um, because that long predates my and NBA fandom and that the Chris Rockd doll. That’s such a that’s such a perfect bit of Harry Morrow’s iconography, too. It’s like such a great intersection of your love of basketball and comedy. There he is. There he is. And it’s such a sad uh It’s such a sad like what could have been. He’s the Grant Hill of M I mean of um Orlando essentially. Yeah. Yeah. And uh like similar injuries, similar trajectory. Too bad. I believe if I’m not mistaken, I think being on blue chips together is what made uh Shaq tell Orlando to draft Penny. Oh, interesting. Interesting. That that was before they Oh, that’s so cool. I think that’s correct. Okay. But wild. And and you’re right, like the uh how it compares to like NIL now because that was the only way people were getting paid. Uh was like the shady ass booster [ __ ] under the table deals. Yeah. Yeah. The guy who played the booster bad guy in Blue Chips, I already forgot his name. I think it’s like JT something, but uh JT the actor who plays Happy. Yeah. His character name is Happy. Yo, what a great piece of [ __ ] bad guy in that movie. Yes, there’s a there’s a fun shot of him at like a at his pool at his mansion and his bathing suits over his belly button. I’m like, “Yeah, you’re so rich, dude.” It’s awesome. I although I will say there in the first cuz like there’s there’s a couple like corruption things happening in the movie. There’s this sort of backstory where uh the western western university is the it’s like West Texas UCLA essentially. Right. Right. And uh it’s the Dolphins. Yeah. It’s the same color scheme too. And uh they’re there’s a like point shaving scandal sort of like looming over the whole thing. Um but the main issue that they’re dealing with at the time is like paying players and Happy is giving a speech of like the university’s profit. so much off these players like this and like they deserve the money. And I’m like, am I on Happy’s side right now? Like like is Happy Spitting right now? It’s he’s not wrong. I know that he’s doing it like for selfish reasons, but the argument is kind of true. And I always felt that way. Like when Reggie Bush had to give back his Heisman, I was like, let him keep that [ __ ] Like these players should get be getting paid. It’s essentially it’s uh unpaid labor, right? And I’m all for the NL. I’m all for these players getting paid. I think I think it’s great because I think the promise of an education is to some extent a sham. Not 100% a sham. You can take advantage of it. It’s just very difficult to do so because so much is expected of you as a as an athlete to participate in going to training, going to these meetings, learning the playbook, learning how to be with your team, and then you have to go to school on top of it. Like it’s it’s not as cut and dry. It’s not black and white uh like that. No, sorry to cut you off, but to to your point like uh when uh Nick Noly goes to recruit Shaq in Alers, [Laughter] he’s uh he’s basically saying like, “Well, would you would you care about getting me an education if I wasn’t good at basketball?” And he was like, “No.” No. And uh go at least that’s so good. So good. Anyway, yeah, I was just chiming in with that, but continue, please. Uh Sha Shaq was actually nominated for a Rzzy for worst breakout performance, which I didn’t think was that bad, but I don’t think people understood that who Shaq was in the movie is who Shaq is in real life. So like he was just being him, which is like kind of funny. Uh what do you think about it? A lot of that, a lot of mugging to the camera, but that’s Shaq. And I That is Shaq. I thought that made him actually kind of endearing to the movie. Did you like Okay, a couple things from because there were a lot of cameos, a lot of like interesting parts. Do you know do you know who the uh uh oh my god why am I blanking on the athletic director was played by the older guy. Yeah. No that was Bob Koozie. Oh no [ __ ] Yeah. So that’s that’s cool cuz he’s ripping free throws and I’m like my god I think cuz Nick Multi’s comment he’s like you ever [ __ ] miss even with your left hand. Yeah. Like it’s just nonstop. I wrote I wrote down I was like how wow this guy how many takes do they have to do? probably not that many cuz it’s Bob Kzie. Makes so much sense. Oh, legendary legendary player. Also, uh when they opened they opened up the shot at French Lick, I was like, “Oh, that’s where Larry Bird’s from.” And then they cut Larry Bird and I was like, “Okay, that’s great. He’s just there at all times. Larry Bird is just shooting buckets at like an abandoned court in French Lick.” And yeah, of course, the like Hick White Boy. Yeah. Is uh is from French Lick. That’s the only place that uh puts out rural white basketball players apparently, right? Not El Gers. Definitely not Al Gers. Certainly not Al Gers. Not Chicago. No chance in Chicago. Uh but I one one issue I had with the movie is like Nick Noly when Ricky Rose is like, “We got we got some business to talk about. Uh give me $30 cash in a bag.” And he like kicks him out. I’m like, “Great.” You know, you you have like these you have like this ethical fortitude here and I’m down with that. You didn’t need Ricky Row. If you have Penny Hardaway and you have Sha Neon Neon Bodro, is that what his name is? Like Yeah. Like or like Bro Bau or like Yeah. Like something in that regard. Like if you from Louisiana originally. Yeah. I you’ll be fine. You’ll be super fine. You have one in chat. They want the three-headed monster. They want the They want the super team. Okay. They want the guaranteed uh guaranteed chip. Um I guess so. But like it didn’t even look like Ricky Row is doing anything except for like uglin girls like crazy. I like girls coach. Yeah. Neon Neon Budau. Budau. That’s right. Uh Butch McCrae, Neon Budo, and Ricky Row. Pretty great names. Pretty great names. Yeah. Uh for Pete Bell. Uh so the to go over the movie if you haven’t seen it, it’s about a coach who is a historic coach whose program is currently failing because they haven’t been doing really well in recruiting and a lot of other teams are recruiting by paying other table by using the boosters to give people like uh cars and money and all that sort of [ __ ] He’s he’s got ethics about it, but because the team’s doing so badly, he lets it slide once. And it’s so it’s like a it’s a lot about the internal struggle he has of it allowing it to happen and then how he feels about it happening uh as a whole. How did you feel about the performances in the movie? Um some of them I really liked. I thought uh Nick Noly was just peak Nick NY like he was just the amount of I I wanted like a counter for the amount of god damn it just so many so many god damn its so many son of a [ __ ] uh but uh I mean the casting is great he’s he’s he’s playing like in the same way that you know Shaq is kind of playing to type like Nick Noli is playing like that’s good casting like I like I liked it it’s it’s like a little over the top but uh I thought he was really good you know who I liked in And it’s sort of a storyline that goes away is Ed O’Neal. Oh yeah. As the journalist who’s trying trying to like blow the case open in like two to four scenes like succeeds in 50% of his scenes. He succeeds. Yes, he does. Um I thought Ed O’Neal was pretty good. Um who else was really good? Um I thought Bob Koozie was actually great. Oh yeah, I loved him in it for not being an actor especially. Like I I think most people be like who’s that actor as opposed to is that a basketball player? who who it was. Yeah. And I so much appreciation for that performance in it. Great great facial acting. And you’re right, Nick Noly was so peak just like throwing stuff around. He throws the cooler of water. He comes back in like three times in that opening scene uh from that coaching for that coaching. Punts the basketball into the stands and then yeah proceeds to uh like just like ream out his team and and throw a water cooler to the ground. Um, I thought Anthony Seahol was really good as Tony. Tony. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. And, uh, Penny Hardway’s mom, what’s her name? Alfrey. Uh, yeah, she was really good. She was really good. She’s good in almost everything she’s in. Yeah, I looked her up after because I was like, what do I know her from? And she is Tell me who it is. Uh, I don’t know how to pronounce the name, but uh, Alfred Woodard. I should look it up. Maybe it’s three. Uh, but she was great. He crushed it as as Mama McCrae. Yeah, absolutely. She was awesome. Yeah, the there’s Yeah, there’s a there’s a line of like he’s like she she wants guaranteed like a job and a house in exchange for Butch joining the team and he’s like Nick Noli is trying to uh convince her not to do it and she’s like what do you think like what do you think your son will become if like the first thing he learns is uh is to like just by like bending the rules and she’s like a millionaire. Yeah. It’s so good. It’s so good. Yeah. Yeah. I I also like the cute scene where he’s like playing basketball with the pillow in Butch McCrae’s house with his whole family. All right, you’re the offguard. Go, go, go, go. Just like yelling at a little four-year-old and grandma’s like, “Okay, I’ll participate.” you know, and like I love how much throughout the whole movie Nick Noli is grabbing people and pushing them around and like having them do stuff and smacking them on the ass and just like it’s so like the scenes when he’s yelling at the referees and stuff too. I’m like that’s so intense. It’s so faking intense and there’s no way it was like comfortable to participate in. Uh it’d be very hard for me to not like break character and laugh with him like yelling I can’t be with him because the job is too demanding. Yeah, it’s uh it’s very like Winning Well, Winning Time did the same thing, except it’s uh it’s Jerry West’s wife. She’s still with him, but he’s just like she’s like, “You’re not happy.” But uh you know what? I I found that like a lame trope as well. But I will say he doesn’t get her back. No, he does not get spoilers. She She is great. She is really good in it. and uh Mary out. At least uh at least they don’t just like have her take him back because uh we’re going to do spoilers here. This movie came out in 94. But uh but he quits. He quits at the end because he wins the chip, but uh he quits and you can tell she’s like, “That’s what you needed to do. You don’t love it anymore. It’s it’s not about basketball anymore. It’s about money and you love the the game, the purity of the game, which is just uh you know, in our in our DraftKings, Bet MGM uh kind of world that we’re living in, it it was it was resonant, I thought. Um yeah, there then you get to see him coach those little kids like right afterwards. Hilarious with him being like, “You come here. You’re not going to shoot a jump shot like that. You know what? Two-handed jump shot just like approaching a bunch of kids playing basketball outside at night. Just like little little kids. Little kids. Um uh I was going to ask you that Ivy’s dunking on in his his He looks good though. He looks limber. Springy. Springy, I should say. Uh, uh, I was going to ask you, are there any, uh, NBA coaches, uh, or perhaps any former Pistons coaches that Nick Noly reminded you of or current Pistons coaches? Any, did you get any shades of anybody? Not really. Like it he reminded me a lot of like Bobby Knight for Indiana who he actually another spoiler, he beats them in the last uh, performance, the last game there. But like what what what I was most struck by was because he does have a love for the game and he does care about like the kids and the players, but his coaching style is like nearly abusive to a certain extent. And I think that’s how people thought they had to coach. Also, shout out young as [ __ ] looking Rick Patino in the opening scenes of that movie. Like that dude looked like he was 21 years old in that thing. But like uh that’s why you’re a good ref. You know how to make calls. But like he’s great. He’s great in it. Yeah. That’s why you’re a good official. Yeah. So funny. But like I think that that mindset of what it takes to be a coach and what it means to be a coach loomed so heavily over professional sports for so long and it almost feels a little uh dated. I mean clearly it feels dated at this point but like maybe Larry Brownesque I suppose uh with with how that goes. Uh, a little JB maybe with That’s what I was gonna say with the barking at the refs. Just the constant one more and you’re out of here. I mean, we didn’t see JB punt uh punt a ball into the stands, but you know, maybe that’s a season two thing. Maybe that’s maybe that’s uh this season. I I caught a little bit of By the way, I just want to say to like it being like a trope of like the angry coach, like apparently Pop like you know was not afraid to yell at players. uh like I remember him talking to Tony Parker being like, “Tony, I couldn’t do half the [ __ ] I did to you back then.” And Tony’s like, “Yeah, just clearly traumatized.” Um there’s a scene where he’s playing uh with in practice and I got like flashes of the SVG like put something together behind the back through the legs. You got to step in front of him this way. Yeah. Like the Stam Gundy video of him like going between hands on practicing. Yeah. Unbelievable. Like mad props to got a package. He’s got a package. Um uh and Nick is like working on the pick. He’s like when he’s on that way, you roll this way. And that’s how you block him off. You roll this way. By the way, the the during that same practice scene and probably throughout the movie, but I really noticed it then. And this makes sense with the Penny Shack thing is uh Reebok everywhere. Everywhere. You mean Gazelle? Yeah. But but in one in one point there’s just like Yeah. like instead of Nike or or whatever it is. But uh uh yeah, that and then so much drinking of Pepsi. So much just coaches sitting around. How are we going to crack crack? Yeah, like the Wayne’s World scene. We’re not going to sell out like that. You know, we’re swearing all the re. Uh but I I thought the movie was shot really well. I thought it was kind of beautiful and like when they were showing the scenes of when he was actually having like the internal struggle and just like shooting up at him while he’s like looking down and like frustrated even like during the game as the game’s like going well and just like feeling the intensity in the game and like the other thing I got to say is it felt like you were actually at the game. It felt like what being at games felt like a lot and it felt real. A lot of times when I’m watching movies, it feels it feels so phony. Like it it everything feels like this is a movie. That felt like this is footage at a game. And I love that about the I think I think incredibly well shot, pretty compelling storyline, good internal uh feel to it. I read online someone said what’s great it might have been uh Roger Eert who said this uh that it’s not just a a a sports movie that is resolved by winning the big game. It’s not about that and I think that’s super cool. Uh that’s a great point. I uh I agree with you. I thought the basketball scenes were really cool. The sound design during the games it almost sounds like there’s like a plane in the thing. like it’s like very intense and like like the whole place is buzzing like kind of literally. Um so that was really visceral. Um and yeah, I like the whole stuff about kind of like power corrupting and like you’re you’re kind of a cog in this machine and you believe in something but there’s like only so much you can do to fight it and all you can really do is like be true to yourself and like you know as as lame as the the Mary McDonald wife stuff kind of was like he lies to her. like he lies to her about whether or not they’re buying players and uh you can tell it like it’s destroying him. Like it’s destroying him because and they they tout the whole time is Western University has one of the cleanest programs the cleanest programs in the in the nation. Um yeah, I I I enjoyed it. I think there were points that were boring. Like it it probably could have been like 10 10 to 15 minutes shorter, but uh I I like that how that review is like it’s not just like an underdog story. like it’s just it’s about like a person’s relationship with the thing they love. And uh that’s that’s kind of unique for a sports movie. Um speaking of other sports movies, it reminded me a little bit the scene where they’re where he’s recruiting the three guys. You can tell Hustle like that’s on the mood board for Hustle when he’s like going around like scouting all the guys and you’ve got the like cameos with Boon and stuff. And for a second I thought you were going to say McGruber where he’s getting his team. No. No. Although I love McGruber, it’s brilliant. I mean, we should just watch that and talk about it. It’s It has nothing to do with basketball, but that would just be fun. Um, but yeah, that reminded me of Hustle a little bit. And then, uh, I do think the biggest irony of the whole movie is that Shaq is playing a character who cannot be bought. Yeah. Not a lot of art imitating life there, but I I He’s like, “Wow, this this is the only guy with integrity who like wouldn’t take the Lexus.” I’m like, “I think he would take the Lexus. I think I think he might take uh just about whatever.” But uh but I I actually didn’t think he was that bad besides the mugging and stuff and like some of that was the script too. I thought it was fine. I truly thought his performance was fine. I didn’t think anybody was bad. And again, okay, I am going to look up the name of uh Happy in uh that movie, Happy in Blue. It is it JT Walsh? Uh it is JT Walsh. Thank you. Yeah. Uh but he’s he’s so killer in that when he has this freak out at the very end with his spiky hair. I’m just like, “Oh my god, man. He is scum.” Like true scum. Uh and it’s just as far as like reminding me of other movies. Have you seen he game? No, I that’s going to be on that. We’re going to watch that because that falls in the world of like this movie very much as well. Not from a coach’s uh perspective, but from like a a father and son’s perspective. Uh like the player and the player’s dad. Uh so I don’t want to spoil too much, but no, I’m I’m excited. I the part of like what’s fun for me with this is that I have not seen a ton of basketball movies. I just watched Love and Basketball for the first time like within the past couple years. We’re gonna do that one too, of course. I mean, we should do them all, really, like as many as we can. Like, um, but there’s uh there is a movie about uh uh point shaving the the the referee movie like because there’s a documentary about the the referee who was uh D. Yeah. There because they there’s a documentary about it that’s really good and there but they also made a movie about it. Will Sasso is in it. What? He’s really good. He plays like his bookie friend who like gets him in on a inside game. Inside game. It’s It’s like not the greatest movie, but like I don’t know. I just thought the story was so interesting. Um, who else is in it? Like pretty much just Will S. Izzy Battenoff, Betsy Butler, Johnny Calibro. I haven’t heard of any of those people. Wait. Yeah, maybe I maybe I know one of these people. Yeah, it’s it’s it was not a big it was not a big movie, but uh I watched it because I was so fascinated by the Tim Donnie story. I’ll watch this I’ll watch the trailer for it. But yeah, that I mean but anyway, yeah, like just this this movie deals with point shaving and uh that that whole thing too. So if he Got Game also kind of touches on that or the NIL thing, like I’m interested just because it’s a it’s a different sort of sports movie than we’re used to seeing. I I am eager. I’m not going to tell you what I feel about he game. Like I might have mentioned it previously on the show, but I don’t want to say it now just because, you know, I don’t want to like influence you one way or the other. Uh but we’ll we’ll get to it. I don’t want to get to it next. Uh the movie I do want to get to next is a famous movie that I have never seen. No matter how many public school substitute teacher bringing the bringing the TV and popping a VHS because we’re just going to watch a movie because that’s what we Can I guess it? Can I guess it? Guess it away. Is it? I’ve never seen it. I’ve never seen it either. I’ve never seen. It’s so funny. No, but like I know so many people was like, “Oh yeah, I’ve seen that a million times uh in school.” I’m like, “In school? Really?” Okay. So that’s is it I The reason I wanted to push that one through is one because I never seen it, two because it’s super famous, and three because uh I got blue chips at the library and it wasn’t there the first time I went, but Hooser was was there so I got Hooser. So, I have that waiting for me to watch as far as that goes. It’s on deck. And if you are out there and you want to see these movies and you’re like, “Where are they streaming?” You don’t need it to stream. You have access to a library and I guarantee you your library has a million more movies than you think they have. Yeah, great call. Um, and yeah, tap in with us. Uh, we’re going to be talking about Hooers next week. Obviously, we’ll touch on whatever uh Pistons news scraps we can get our grubby little mitts on because, you know, we are just so thirsty for any any morsel. But if you’re if you’re interested in tapping in with us, like, subscribe, there’s less to talk about, so I’m getting better at remembering to remind you. Uh, tell a friend. Uh, we’re having fun here. We’re talking we’re talking movies. Uh, we’re talking basketball. So, you know, keep keep we’re we’re 50 50 episodes in the can. Uh, we’re gonna keep going. We’re gonna keep going whether you listen or not. But we would love for you to listen. We’d love for you to listen. It’s a great time when you’re here. It’s a great time when you uh participate in the chat. We love having you in the chat. And if there’s a basketball movie that you want us to watch, I tell you what, uh whoever the first person to leave a suggestion on Blue Sky to us is for a basketball movie, I don’t care what basketball movie it is, whatever the first one that we see shows up, we’re watching it. That’ll be the next one. That’ll be the very next one, no matter what it is. And there’s some bad basketball movies uh out there. I’m not tell which one I think are bad. Uh, but there are some bad ones. And uh, I actually think a lot of them are good. So, who knows how that goes. But, you know, we’re we’re here. We’re we’re not we’re not going to put on 15 pounds of weight or anything while we’re waiting for you guys to watch us and anything like that, but we’re happy Ron did. So, thanks again for listening. Thanks for uh joining us out here on both coasts. And we’re going to leave you this episode the way we leave every episode, and that is by saying the acronym for Order of the Blazing Horse aloud because we think that’s kind of how a horse would be talking anyway. So, I’ve been Harry and I’m Mickey.
After a quick discussion about what the Pistons may be doing with their roster spots, the boys at the Order are celebrating their 50th episode and easin the summer slow season by starting a new segment: the Basketball Movie Club. Harry and Mickey watch and review basketball movies of all shapes, sizes, and genres. They kick it off with a classic that Mickey has never seen before, Blue Chips, starring Nick Nolte, Shaq, Penny Hardaway, and Mary McDonnell.
