Pistons Can STILL Make Moves 👀 Full Offseason Breakdown | Free Agency LIVE Reaction

Pistons Can STILL Make Moves 👀 Full Offseason Breakdown | Free Agency LIVE Reaction

live stream today. We are going to be recapping, reviewing, whatever you want to call it, the Pistons off season today. And have a very special guest here, a friend who joined us throughout all the first week of free agency. I’ve got KL Mets, Pistons Cap guru, joining us again to go through it all. Kyle, what’s going on, man? What up, everybody? It’s uh it’s it’s going well. Been a busy week. Uh you can see I’m at my office because the the city decided to cut my my internet while they’re clearing some brush. So we luckily we’re still able to make it work. No, I I appreciate you making the effort to jump on, man, cuz uh it’s been now I would say pretty much a month since I think we we reacted to the first three or four days of free agency together. Um, and but we’ve had now around four weeks to digest um, everything and we’re going to go through to remind everyone the deals that took place. Um, we’ll also touch on what what else could happen before opening night. But just before I get into the players that came in and out of the roster, how are you feeling just as a whole about the Pistons off season now that we’ve had some time to kind of think about it? Yeah, time has definitely helped. Um, I feel a lot better than in the moment for sure. Um, yeah, I think I saw a stat come out. I wish I would have tagged it before we we hopped on here, but um, like the fastest closeouts by defense per player. I forget who tweeted that out. Maybe you did. Um, uh, but it was like Malik Beasley was like number two for last season and Duncan Robinson was like five or something. They’re both of them were in like the top five. And so that gave me a lot of like and I’ve watched some other things and listened to some other people talk about Duncan Robinson. I’m really excited about him. The deal one is a steal and we’ll get to that. But basically a one-year deal. Um and it’s almost better than one year deal because they can trade it to someone who’s trying to shed money. Um and we can talk about that later. But so that’s a great deal for Duncan Robinson. He replaces what Beasley brought. Um and he’s bigger. you know, he’s not much more of a defender than Beasley is statistically, but in theory he could be. You know, like now he’s also 30ome, so he is what he is, but he’s at least bigger, so you feel a little bit better just from a size standpoint having him out there. Um, and then yeah, Caris Levert is just okay. It’s okay. It’s an okay signing. They had to pivot to that. I don’t hate it. Um, we’ll see what that is. But, but yeah, I think overall, considering what they had to deal with, I feel I feel like they’re at least as good as they were. Maybe slightly different, but they basically got the pieces that they had in place last year. And they’re adding Ivy. So, if Ivy can be 85% of what he was before he went down, like that’s going to be at least comparable to what THJ brought, if not more, right? So, there is potential to be better um this year. That’s there. It’s just a matter of what guys do. Um yeah, and then you think the internal improvement with Assar having a full off season. Um some things like that. I think Ron having a full off season between those guys like I think there is potential to really um take another step forward even if it doesn’t mean we’re wins to be like it’s legitimately the young guys carrying it rather than last year it was like the vets that were carrying it in a in a really obvious way. the bets and cade. Um, I think this year it could be you could see that the the younger guys even taking more on and even if it doesn’t mean more wins, but you see that this kind of shift to the future. So, I feel okay. I feel okay about it. I I think Yeah. No, I think that’s definitely fair. And for everyone watching, um, I more people are going to filter in as the episode goes on, but if you have any questions, um, for us or Kyle specifically about the cap, um, we’re going to talk about what they have left later on, like how they can sign other players. But if you have any questions, please drop them in and we’ll get to them at the end. But I think KL like I I think a lot of fans probably are quite similar with you as like free agency played out as we saw like everything pretty much always happened in those first few days and obviously the Hawks and Magic at least in the East were like kind of seen as some of the big winners. But I think as it’s played out and we’ve seen what happened I think like everyone’s starting to feel okay to better about it. Um, but let’s kind of recap what the Pistons did and I might get you to touch on um go into that Duncan Robinson deal a little bit more and um we’ll talk about the trade of player exception as well. But just to recap, the Pistons signed Carris Levert to a 2-year $29 million deal. They added Duncan Robinson on a three-year $48 million deal. Resigned Paul Reed to a 2-year 11 million deal. They acquired a second round pick and a $14.3 million trade exception for Dennis Shruder and they also signed Kobby Jones to a two-way and Dennis Jenkins they resigned him. So maybe let’s start with Duncan Robinson. Kyle, can you just update or remind everyone of the way that deal was structured because I think a lot of us when we saw 3 years 48 million were like oh wow okay that’s a lot. But um just for those that might have forgotten, just explain how that deal is kind of structured. Yeah, absolutely. So they remember this was a sign and trade sending out Fonteo um to Miami. And so what they did was um they maximized the amount of money that they could take back from sending out Font US salary this year. So they structured his contract. They frontloaded it. So it’s $16.8 million in the first year. The reason why they did that one because this year and in future years as the cap grows the the salary bands grow. So what you can take back in a salary also now grows with a percentage of the cap. So like last year you could depending on the range between like 7.5 million and 29 million whatever I always I haven’t I need to lock down the numbers. It’s a simple calculation. I just haven’t done it. But you could bring back seven and a half million. Well, this year those that expanded and so it’s eight you can actually add eight and a half million to anyone who makes eight and a half million or 32 million. It’s like in that range. Um otherwise it switches to the 125% of what you’re sending out plus $250,000. So that’s what they call the extended trade band or the extended trade exception. It’s another weird name, but they maximize what they can bring back with Fontio. So that one, if they want to trade Duncan at the deadline, that gives them an extra $2 and a half million dollars in salary to play with. It’s a big deal when it comes to those deadline moves and making that money work. And then year two of the of the contract only has 2 million guaranteed. And so um it’s like 15.9 million is the base salary, but only two of that’s guaranteed. Um and then year three is completely non-g guaranteed. So there’s a lot of flexibility. Those non-G guaranteed years are better than team exceptions in the sense that they can send out as much salary as they need to match to make things work. So let’s say they don’t trade him at the deadline, but they want to trade him in the offseason. They can use him from anywhere from 2 million up to 15.9 million as outgoing salary depending on what they need to match. And so it gives them a lot of flexibility in terms of moving him. And then the team can get it’s basically an expiring next year. So basically it’s a it’s an expiring contract for the next three years with the option of building as a salary filler. So it’s literally designed just to be a salary matching tool. Um and he’s going to fill a need this year at least until the deadline if they don’t want to move him. So that’s how that works. It’s like when you dive into it like that and I think like initially the Pistons got some heat even maybe from some national media members who maybe hadn’t looked into the specifics of the deal. everyone just thought three years 48 like what are they doing? But like you said, it can be a really useful tool come the trade deadline and it is an essentially an expiring um even could you even say yeah for this season as well in a well yeah it’s two million it’s 2 million next year. So essentially he got it’s a it’s a one year 18 one and a half year $18 million contract essentially is what it is. It’s so like it’s it’s perfect for what they need. Um, it’s similar to the like what I was proposing with the like giving THJ like 20 million or 24 million as a one-year deal. Like it accomplished that same thing with a player who is going to fit probably better into what they’re trying to do anyway. Um, and so that that’s it is really that it’s just an expiring. Yeah. No, it’s it’s that deal and just Duncan as a player, like the more I’ve looked into his game and what he can do, um I I truly don’t think even Malik Beasley could probably replicate what he did last season. Um so I think getting Duncan, who I think can give you a lot of what Malik brought you, I think he can give you some more in other areas. He might not um have the shooting season that Malik did, but I think it’s going to be that that’s a really good signing. I think for the Pistons and I guess that brings us to the other I guess player acquisition or the only other new free agent they actually signed was Carris Levert for two years 29 million. So that was the mid-level the non the taxpayers mid-level. No non- taxpayers. Non taxpayer mid-level. Y yeah y um just is there anything else we need to know about that deal? Does that mean now I mean I’ve probably never even thought about this but considering Caris is on that. Does that mean the Pistons can’t offer a mid-level until that deals off the books? Is that correct? No, that’s not that’s not how that works. They get it every year. As long as they’re non tax non- taxpayers, they’ll have that available to them. Um we’ll get into kind of where they stand in relation to the tax here in a minute, but um but yeah, so that’s just a two standard two-year deal. Um, so shortterm they can trade him if they need to. Again, it’s more salary matching. Uh, you know, if you put those two deals together right there, Duncan and um, Caris Levert, that’s $31 million in outgoing salary, which means they can bring basically back a $40 million player, right? So, yeah, we’re already talking you throw in one more player, you can get Lorie Markin in at the deadline, right? That’s that’s the kind of that’s the realm we’re talking in right now. Um that’s why it doesn’t hurt you. It’s a two-year deal. Um and you need again you needed some some depth there. I think he’s a way better player than Dennis Schroeder. Um and that’s basically what you’re paying Dennis last year. Um and again it gives you trade flexibility. So we’ll see. We’ll see how much. And if and if Ivy is what he what we want him to be, it’s not going to matter. like, yeah, Caris doesn’t need to be all that much. Um, he just has to be depth. And so, the other thing I want to say about if Duncan, if we can swing back real quick, um, Duncan Robinson’s never played with a real point guard, quite frankly. I don’t think he’s played with a point guard that averages more than five assists per game since he came to Miami. I think maybe in his first season he might have played with Gorandraic that, but like Yeah, he was averaging five points a game. He was a scorer. He’s never probably played with a who are playmaking like you know Jimmy I think is kind of a bit of a playmaker but he’s not he’s nothing like Kade. So that that’s a really good point as well like he hasn’t played with a guy who can create the open looks I think Kade will create for him. So Right. Exactly. And I think that’s something to be and and he’s actually been more consistent than Beasley has the last three or four years. So like Beasley was never going to replicate what he did last year. And there’s a chance that that Robinson could touch that, right? He could very much like see his numbers grow just because the role he’s going to be in and who he’s got passing to him. So, I wouldn’t underestimate that. Now, he might not, and I don’t want to blow too much smoke there, but it’s just we don’t really know what he can be with his movement ability and his ability to read and kind of react to the defenses. He’s improved in that. With Cade reading the floor with him, it could be really cool. like it could really unlock him even more. No, I I think it’s a great point and even to just bring it back to Caris Levert, like I love what YouTube says, YouTube user says here about him potentially being our second best on ball primitive defender. Like I think even the what I like I liked it in the moment, but the more I’ve had time to reflect about it, Levert and Robinson are just taller than THJ and um bees. Like I think Malik’s 63, 6’4. I think THJ maybe 6’5 on a good day. Like I think Caris is like 6’5, 66. Duncan 67, 68. Now I know Duncan has defensive deficiencies. I’m not going to sit up here and pretend like he’s going to not get picked on in the playoffs, but I think Levert certainly doesn’t. like YouTube are outlined and I think both of Duncan Robinson and Levert um a lot of people know about Levert’s bucket getting ability, but I think like off the dribble, but I actually think Duncan Robinson has a little bit of juice as well as like a guy that can offer close out like make some really nice passes. Like I’ve actually seen some compilations on Twitter of like his passing even his floater game. So, um I think you get a little bit more in the shot creation department for sure. more size, more defense with this duo than you did with the previous I guess duo we had in that THJ and Beasley. Um, so I I look, I think maybe the last thing on Caris, having a look around at some of the deals that got handed out, do you think two years $29 million is is fine for him? Yeah, because there really wasn’t anyone else to give that to either, right? If they don’t use the non- tax, like who else would they going to spend it on? like who like you know I mean like maybe a four but you’re not giving Trey Lyles $14 million. Like you don’t need to. Um the only way they would have been able to use that differently is if they were able to swing a trade for like PJ Washington, but there’s no indication that was ever on the table, right? So we can have our wish list guys, but frankly, you know, this was this was the best that they had. Um it filled a need that they were trying to withhold her leaving. Um, and they still have that 14.3 million TPE that they can use that to go gift for if they want to, right? So, even if that deal is still there, they created that in the sign-in trade. And so, I think it it there wasn’t much else to do with it. Um, and again, it fills a need and he’s familiar with with coach. And so, I think that’s important to like to not under the vibes were so good last year and Malik was a big part of that, frankly. like he was one of the vibe guys like and to not have him around like to have another guy who can help who’s been with JB before who who’s not going to come in and disrupt the culture um and know his role and appreciates like what JB Dud did for him in the past. Like he had his best three-point shooting season and his best defensive season under JB. And so I think that’s something to why they targeted him um as as well. um as a guy to bring in. So yeah. No. And I think maybe just before we get to our grades for the off season here so far, I do want to just go into um the traded player exception because even still like we did a lot on it back when it was all going down. But and I learned a lot, but I even sometimes still see some people putting out stuff with the trader player exception like adding it with player salaries to send it out. So, I think it’s worth just quickly rehashing how that trader player exception that the Pistons got from the Kings can actually be utilized. Um, so I’ll turn it to you just to do a your 30 seconds to a minute spiel on on the 14 is it it was 14.3 million trader player exception they got back, wasn’t it? Yeah. I’ll break that down because this is where some of the confusion is also coming from. But yeah, I’m sure everyone who followed this is Jack is is this is you guys already know this, so we’ll just, you know, every surely all of your followers have gotten this figured out, but just in case. Um, so Schroeder’s salary was 14.1 million. 14,14,000. That’s what it was. That’s it was the non- taxpayer mid-level exception. That’s what he got. So in sending him out, that’s the that is what the TPE is. 14.1 million. Like technically that’s the traded player exception is 14.1 million with the traded player exception. You cannot aggregate that with other player salaries or any other exceptions. It is what it is. The the player or players have to fit inside that bucket plus $250,000. So that’s why I’ve been saying it’s 14.354 million because I’m adding in that 250,000 because essentially it’s not like base. It’s not a percentage of anything. So it’s weird reporting like I don’t know why they do it that way. It’s probably just you know for accountants to be able to keep the book clean, but like technically they can bring back the exception was 14.1 million. They can bring back point 14.35 million because they get that $250,000 buffer on top. So, if you want to see a player come back in that, they have to make salary less than that. They can bring back multiple players into it. They can use it in multiple different trades throughout the next year. They had the calendar year from when the trade went down to use it. Um, and so they can split it up amongst different transactions and different, you know, or multiple players, but it can’t exceed that 14.354 million. Yeah. No. Well explained. And so, um, let’s just say for some reason, I just want to do an example. Let’s just say for some reason the Dallas Mavericks season doesn’t go the way they planned. They got too many guys in the front court. And for some reason PJ Washington becomes available. Could would this this work? The Pistons could offer like a future first and a second and that’s it. And they could bring back PJ Washington because he fits into that trader player exception. Not the most realistic deal, but I just that’s something that could work. They can send out picks, but no no player salaries. Correct. Yep. They could they could get him now. They could send player salaries back, but they don’t have to. Um, let’s say they want Sasser in a pick. So, they can send Sasser out and put him into the trade exception. And then they create a new trade exception for Sasser’s salary, which would be tiny and be kind of pointless, but it would technically be how that would they would structure it that way just to do it. Um but yeah so let’s say they want you know same thing like let’s say they want it it’s a bigger deal involving you know Tobias for some reason right like they can now pull players into that exception and then create bigger exceptions if they send out salary just for the sake of making value work for the team but they don’t need to in order to make the money work. Oh okay I didn’t know that part. So just back to the PJ Washington example. So, say the Mavs wanted Sassa and a pick. How could the just Sorry, could you just go through again? Would that be like Sassa to the Mavericks be a separate trade that creates a new exception or how? Essentially, how it works is the trade trades can be like depending on what side the team is on, like the team’s allowed to structure however they want regardless of how the other team structures it. So Detroit could could essentially they could take back PJ into the trade exception. Let’s let’s make it someone more like um like Robinson just for just you know they could send Robinson out and then they would now have a $16.8 million trade exception to use because of how they structured the deal. Um they pulled him into the trade exception rather than using Duncan’s salary to match it. they could pull it in the trade exception and create a bigger trade exception. Okay. Um and the Mavericks can do the same. So if so if the Mavericks send Detroit PJ into the trade exception and they don’t get any salary back, they now create a $14.1 million trade exception for PJ’s salary because they sent that back. If they bring Sasser in, then they can create like a 13 or like one 11 million, right? So they subtract Sasser’s salary and then they create that. Um, so yeah, they can there’s other ways to to basically use the trade exception and still send money out to create new trade exceptions. Trade exceptions. I’ve never this this offseason I’ve definitely learned the most and I just learned some more then. But um I think we’ve covered that. I can see a lot of people bring up Malik Beasley in the chat. So obviously I I look I don’t think we really need to cover who left the Pistons team. Maybe before we talk about Malik and that situation briefly, is there any player that’s left the roster or that you are concerned about their absence for the upcoming season? I think not really. Um, like I said, I would have liked to see them be able to somehow keep THJ and use him as salary fodder, but they they took care of that with the guys they brought in. Um, and so yeah, no, I don’t think there’s anyone that I’m like devastated about at this point. Yeah, I look I think the more I’ve thought about it, like I think a lot of fans probably the one like Malik’s situation is so like its own thing, so I can’t even really put him in here. But I think Dennis Schroeder is probably the player I’ve seen the most where fans like I don’t know how we’re going to replace him. like not dismissing Ivy, but I actually even think like Dennis made some big shots in the playoffs and I I really enjoyed having him on the team, but I’m actually not sure him and Kade as a duo, the numbers were great, which they weren’t. They weren’t. And if you look at if you look at um Levert’s numbers, career numbers compared to Schroeder’s career numbers, they’re not different like hardly at all in terms of shooting percentages and things like that. And so frankly, like he’s bigger, he can do more things on defense. Like I think that outweighs what you were getting with Schroeder. and Shartter had an uncharacteristically good shooting. Yeah. Season in the in the postseason especially. That’s high variance. You can’t count on that again. And so like yes, it got us close to winning. Like we won two playoff games, but we’re not talking about a guy who helped us get to the conference finals. He was a guy who was there for half a season, had a few good games in the playoffs. Like we need to push pump the brake. like he was good, but Levert can probably give us some of that and more. And and I think like he was kind of just right time, right player, but I think with who the Pistons added, who’s returning, um I think it’s fine. And ultimately, I think the Kings signed him to three years, 45 million. I believe the last year might not be fully guaranteed, but I mean, if that’s what it was going to take, then it was just never going to happen. But um I just want to shout out Devon and YouTube user Mr. Jones who are all asking about Malik Beasley. So I appreciate you all watching but YouTube user has this question here which will bring us into the Malik Beasley situation. So YouTube user says if Beasley wants more than a vet minimum would Detroit be able to out other teams with the by annual exception. And just before we answer that um there’s been a fair bit in the past week I want to say with I think Malik even said some stuff on his Snapchat today. I don’t have Snapchat but I think I saw Pistons Talk might have posted the clip. But everything that’s kind of coming from Malik is positive in the sense of like he’s going to return. Now to be honest, I don’t put a whole lot of weight into those comments. Not because I think Malik’s a liar or anything. I just think like with his situation, he has to be positive. So of course he’s going to say he’s innocent and all that. So I like for me that’s my kind of stand on it. But I guess Kyle, we’ll get to this question next, but if Malik is not guilty, um, do you think the Pistons are potentially holding that 14th roster spot right now? Not like even if it’s only like a 1% chance that this somehow blows over before opening night, do you think there’s a chance they’re holding that roster spot open in the in in that very unlikely event he is available to be signed? It’s an interesting question. Um because I think right now they have what 13 players under contract. So they need to get to one. They need to I believe they need to get to 14 by opening night and then they have 15 roster they can fill. Yeah. So they definitely don’t need to keep 14 available for Beasley. I think they’ll fill that and then keep might keep 15 open um depending on what they do. Um um there’s a few things at play here. So one, they actually still have Beasley’s bird rights or non-bird rights more specifically, which means they can sign him to up to $7.2 million. Um was actually the most they can sign him up to four years, 30 million actually is the full what they can give him. He won’t want four years, but they can sign him to a one-year $7.2 million deal or prrated for whatever that’s going to be when he comes back. Um which helps. Um, and so yes, they can out bid every other team with the bianual. Um, and they’re going to hold on to those rights because they’re an overcap team. They don’t have to get rid of those rights. So they can hold those into the season. It doesn’t affect anything. Um, really they don’t. So that’s so that’s that. Um, so if they want to do it, it’s very easy for them to do so. Um, they could just give him the minimum, but they can also give him a little more if they want. And then what that does is it unlocks early bird rights for next year. So, if he does ball out and it’s clear and we, you know, whatever, then they can, then they can give him like 12 million or 14 million, which will be closer to the non- taxpayer, like they can get him closer to that with his early bird rights. Um, so there’s there’s mechanisms to help to do that to out bid teams and get him back if they want him. That being said, there’s a lot of shooting guards on the roster already. They’ve replicated what they wanted with him through Duncan Robinson. Um, that doesn’t mean they won’t do it and they can’t doesn’t mean they can’t do it. Um, and just, you know, it’s not a bad thing to have on the roster, but they still have other needs. They do have a backup of four. They have a hole there, unless they think Ron and Assar are going to fill that, but I don’t know that they’re fully on board with like that being the only minutes they have there. Um, I think more like what they’re doing is keeping those roster spots open to do a consolidation move. Um, okay. Or like they’ll probably bring in a backup of four. They’re probably just waiting to see what the like after things are being held up right now with the Kaminga stuff um and the other um restricted free agents and so they’re probably just holding out because maybe you know maybe Horford gets tired of waiting for Golden State, right? Yeah. And they can offer him the bannual or something like that or they can work out a sign and trade to use the TPE with the Celtics or something, you know. No, it’s what the more what they’re doing. Is there um I guess I just want to finish on the Malik stuff first because that what you brought up with the roster spots is where we’re going to go next. But how like you kind of touched on actually talking about how the team already has shooting guards and a lot of players looking for minutes in that back court. If you can get him though, like my stance has just been like I kind of never just once this investigation happened I was like no he’s he’s not going to be on the Pistons and then we saw the signings I made very quickly after but if you can get him on one of those deals you mentioned it’s kind of like I know we drafted Chaz Laneir I know there’s Sassa but like I would just kind of try and make it work I think is where I’m at. Um, and like cuz the only way he’s going to be on this roster is if this thing blows over and he’s not guilty. So, we can’t really factor any of that into him being I see a lot of people talking about him being a bad not being a culture fit because of all this. But, I think if he is signed back to the Pistons, it’s because none of that was proven guilty. So, that’s where I’m at. I would just probably bring him back on on like one of those deals you outlined and then just try and make it work because of how good of a shooter he is. Yeah, and there’s no reason not to. But again, it takes two to tango. He could decide. Yeah. Like he could look at the depth chart and say, “I don’t have a chance to play.” Great point. Or it’s not going to be so I’ll take two million less and go sign with somebody else that has more minutes for me. Like there’s a contenders that can give him. I mean, frankly too, the minimum at his at this point in his career is also like almost three million or a little over $3 million. So like the difference between three and five and seven for him with money troubles might make a big difference. But the point is like he’s not costing himself that much in the long run other than like if he really wants to think those early bird rights will hit for him for next year. It all depends on what Detroit wants to do. Um and signing him back would give them more flexibility to trade Duncan at the deadline. Um or even in the next 60 days. They don’t need to wait for the deadline. Um they got it’s just like 60 days after signing. So, like technically people come available by what? December 15th or something. Yeah, that’s right. So, moving on then. So, like you outlined, the Pistons have two roster spots left. They have to fill one before opening night. I I you kind of just outlined some of the scenarios. Is there So, they obviously just resign Dennis Jenkins on a two-way. Could they in theory though wave him and then resign him to the regular roster on a normal deal if they get closer to training camp and haven’t filled that out? I know that’s unlikely, but it was just some a random thing that popped into my head. They don’t need to wave him. They can just call him up and convert it to a standard contract. So, that’s how the two work. You can just convert the contract. Okay. And there’s benefits to that. I don’t I haven’t not dug into those kind of transactions, but yes, they could very much bring him up on the active roster pretty quickly. Yeah. Got you. And I think like I was going to go through some available free agents here that they could look to fill. Obviously Chris Bush signed with the Celtics yesterday, I believe, which I know for a lot of fans was a name that everyone was talking about for backup four and someone to add to the front court, but I think like you touched on it. It does feel like for at least even honestly maybe most of August those roster spots are just going to sit open. My gut feel is Traan might do what he did last year and just keep the 15th one free. Um, can you just talk to a little bit like the flexibility of having that open roster spot? How that could potentially help you in deals approaching the trade deadline and after that December 15th um deadline I guess where every player is available to be traded. Yeah. So, because they have uh there’s a few ways for the Pistons specifically. I’ll just I’ll do this. A lot of teams keep it open because of of apron issues um or they’re over the luxury tax, so they don’t want to spend the money on a player that they’re not going to use. So, they keep it open and just cycle through like 10day contracts, things like that. For the Pistons, because they have that traded player exception, they can take in without sending anybody out. That having that roster spot spot open means they can do that without having to cut someone to make that work. Um, the other thing, what this is important, so the Pistons right now currently stand about 22 million, yeah, $22.8 million under the luxury tax. And so, if they bring in a $ 14.3 million player, they’re still $8 million in wiggle room there. So, they’re not really like I don’t think that’s as much of a concern. But, let’s say they use the bannual on like a Trey LS. Now you’re talking your roster is full like and then they bring someone in with a 14 point, you know, just say they bring someone in. Now you’re looking at a full roster with three million under the luxury tax which kind of kills your flexibility to make deals at the deadline without then pushing over. Right? Remember if you remember that $18.5 million band like right now if they bring in a $14 million player, they’re right that $8.5 million band. It’s like that’s exactly what they’re under for the luxury tax. And so they could go make a move, bring in $8.5 million more than what they send out and still be under the luxury tax. That’s pretty strategic and important. Let’s say if they want to make a big move and go get someone like Lori Markin, let’s say they try to make a swing for XYZ player. Doing that and staying under the luxury tax this year is probably going to be important for them because you start paying more for repeater tax in the future. So they’re not going to want to push into that until they have to. So that’s also why I think they’re not just going to bring a guy in just to do it because then you’re you’re making the ability to bring in salary you can before hitting the luxury tax you’re limiting that that flexibility. So I think that’s really the reason. Yeah. No, that that that makes total sense. Um, I guess what is, this was on the outline, but I kind of want to ask you, what’s your gut feel with the extensions for Jaylen Durren and Jayen Ivy? Because I think that all ties into a potential move at the deadline. Surprised that wasn’t I surprised that wasn’t going to be on the outline actually. Um, because I think when we’re talking about one Lori, I don’t know. It’s just someone that I just someone that’s getable. That’s that’s the only reason why I’m using him as an example. I think he’s just the most getable or most seems like the most available allar I guess at the at the moment with what we know. Yeah. And fits decently well next to Kate. Like we Yeah, there’s there’s reasons why he kind of makes sense, but my gut feeling so today actually is the last day if I am know if I’m correct. I could be slightly off on this. Today’s the last day to extend someone and have them be trade eligible by the deadline. So, because we didn’t get extensions today, I still think a Duran extension gets done. Um, what’s up, Camille? It’s good to see you. That’s a joke. That’s Pistons Turkey. I know you. Yeah, Camille. He and I are buddies. Um, the, uh, so basically I would say at this point, so a couple things to keep in mind. I think Durham probably gets done be because or maybe I should say if Durn’s gets done this is why it’s because they both kind of have an idea of what the center market is at this point and Duran’s going to take the money that he can get because he knows it’s probably risky to try to hit the market. We’ve seen right now restricted free agency is going to be nuts. Now next year there’s more teams with cap salary room like salary cap room so it may not be as challenging for next year’s restricted free agents as this year but still no cakewalk. Um, and so I think Duran could potentially get done also because I think it’s harder for the Pistons to replicate what he does mid-season. They definitely don’t have someone on the roster that can replicate what he does already. Um, and again, whether you think that’s a good fit for Kate or not, that’s a different debate. But what he does and what he does well, they don’t really have someone who immediately steps in to to cover that. He’s the only guy over like 6′ n on the roster, maybe 68. like like he’s the army. There’s not another and there’s not a lot of free agents that can really do what he does like or that have the ceiling that he does, right? And so I could see them agreeing to an extension for him in this season because I don’t think they’re going to trade him mid-season. I just don’t. Um IB on the other hand, I think wants more than they’re willing to give him right now. Um, and you’re seeing even Tra’s reluctance, like the whole league’s reluctance to give an like a combo scoring guard, like that’s weird. It’s weird, but it’s not valued right now. And and given especially combo scoring guards that haven’t proven they can be starting players on a winning team. I think that’s the through line with like Monk, Colin Ston, some of those other guys like that. I think there’s real value in those guys that have proven they can be starters on winning teams or playoff teams, but none of the Yeah, it’s super interesting. Well, and yeah, and so I think the So, yes, there’s so so much I want to say about this. Um, go for it. Sorry, I cut you off, but I just think No, you’re good. I’m just trying to I’m trying to keep it consolidated. So, I think Dur There’s a chance that Duran gets done before the season starts because I don’t think they’re trying to trade him. Um, the reason why I’m saying that is because it’s actually easier to trade Ivy at this point without an extension. And quite frankly, it’s the only way to legally trade him this season without an extension at this point. Um, because the poison pill things and so even if he’s on an extension, it makes it harder to trade in the deadline because then salary matching is really weird. And we don’t need to go into all the details, but it just if a player’s on an extension, salary matching gets really crazy because the outgoing doesn’t match the incoming salary. And then you have to work with that. Um, and so yeah, and there’s no way that either one of them are going to take under $25 million a year. That just doesn’t make any sense. Yeah. Like even because $25 million a year, let’s just real quick, let me just because their doesn’t start doesn’t start till 20. It wouldn’t even start till next season. And the projected cap is 164 million. And that’s a low estimate. I think the league’s just trying to be a little conservative. Like if you do I don’t know I’ve tried off the top of my head like 25 divided by 165 what is that like 12% of the cap 15% of the cap. Yeah that’s that’s so low for your start like Duran might take 25 million but he’s not going to take under that like per on average you know. So when I was on and I know you did an episode with coup just before free agency but when I was talking to him last week a week before I said kind of four for 100 but I’m not I’m no guru or anything but like I don’t know I just thought that was my gut feel of like what I would happily bring them back on but I was like I kind of don’t think they would be over the moon with that. I think Duran I think Duran takes that $25 million for what he is now it’s a good deal and and even what he could be like that’s a good deal for kind it puts him in that range of what everyone else is doing. Um and I think that’s fine but Ivy there’s no reason for Ivy to take less than $30 million a year period. No reason. If you take the J and Green contract and just do percentage of cap, he should be making 39 million on average over the course of three years with a player option, right? If that’s if that’s the baseline, like I’m better than that guy, you know, like he’s not going to take less than that. So, he’s gonna he’s going to bet on himself. Um, and I think that’s why it doesn’t get done. And honestly, I don’t think the Pistons want to do it now because if they do want to trade him, it’s easier to do it without the extension being done. Um I don’t think they’re looking to trade him, but that it just doesn’t make sense at this point. So that’s why. Yeah. So if you So if we like just to put a bow on this, I So we both think four years 100 Jaylen Duran takes that and I like I think YouTube uses here says that’s too much for a traditional big who can’t shoot. I think like that is fair. I I I think though the Pistons and Duran would think they’re going he’s not going to be a below average defender and I think they would put stock into him improving even if he’s still not great. Um we did see some improvement but um it does seem like a lot but then when you go back to like the percentage of the cap 12 did you say it’s about 12% 15% it’s it’s 15 if it’s it’s 15 for next year and then depending on how they structure the raises if it’s 25 flat then it’s going to go down. Yeah. So, it’s it’s look, I think JD probably does accept that, but Ivy, I don’t think is going to take four for 100, but I also don’t see the Pistons offering him four for 120 of what he would he would probably potentially take. Trajan didn’t want to get back Malik Monk for free, which is what we think was the deal. Yeah, they did. And he was on a three-year contract making like 18 million a year. Yeah. and is already better than Ivy offensively. Can we agree with that? Like definitely a more consistently good offensive player than where Ivy is right now. Yeah. And he’s not old. Well, M is not old and he didn’t want to do that. Okay. So, either he thinks that archetype is not worth paying $25 million a year. Yeah. Or he’s super confident that Ivy’s going to be more than what he is and wants to keep that money open. So you could read that both ways. Yeah. But just that’s just something that is telling it’s telling to me that that he didn’t want to take that on. Yeah. The the other thing I thought with the M thing as well is like I don’t think once we figured out what the Duncan Robinson deal was and how it was structured outside of Cade, who else? No one’s on the books after as in for major money like after like not this offseason next season next next off season currently under the books is just Cade at $50 million. Um Isaiah Stewart at $15 million. Oh, how do I get that stupid? Um and then Caris Levert at 14.8, Paul Reed for 5.3. And I don’t remember if his second year is guaranteed or not. I don’t have it is I think that’s just a straight deal. Um but yeah, so there’s not I mean there’s a lot of options and then Duncan obviously with the non-G guaranteed. Yeah. Um, so no, it’s I I kind of wanted them to do the monk deal, but now that was one of the ones in the moment I think I just was like I want like add the player figure it out. But then thinking about it with like Devon says here the years the overlap with Ivy who I would rather have frankly than believe in his potential. Um, yeah, I think it’s I think everything worked out in a reasonable way. Um, but Kyle, we’ve already gone over what I said. like you said, I definitely would. You were right to point that out. Um, I do know you had a certain trade for a certain player. You might have had some prepared. So, I’m going to let you go to that and then we’re going to wrap it up with uh I want to just get your projections on the rotation opening night cuz I feel like everyone’s talking about backup four, but just let’s get to these trades or trade you had prepared in chat. If you do have any actual like some questions, please chuck them in now. Um and hopefully we can get Kyle to answer them at the end. Hey, I would be more than glad to we can we can skip my fake trades. Let’s we can do questions. I don’t need to give us one. Give us one. Okay. Um I Let me ask you, Jack. Would you would you trade So this let’s say at the deadline, would you trade um Tobias? Yeah. Assar. Um and oh shoot, who is the last one? Um, it’s got to kick me. What did I do? I think it was Levert, maybe. Um, hold on. I’ll pull it up. Sorry. This is bad. This is bad podcasting. No, you’re good. Okay. Tobias. Yeah. Tobias, Levert, and Assar. Yeah. To the Bucks for Giannis, Bobby Poris, and Gary Harris, plus all the first we got and all the ex on. And so, it’s costing you all the first and all the exchanges. Yes. Maybe some seconds. I would. Yeah, like I I obviously Assar’s like Kad’s obviously in his own tier and I don’t think the Pistons will ever trade him at least for the next That would be crazy. But apart from Kade, Assar is the one that I would hate to move on from the most. But it’s like if you’re still keeping Ivy Duran Ron wasn’t in that, was he? Nope. It’s It’s getting Bobby Porter back with a TPE. Yeah. and you’re getting so you’re getting your backup four and you’re getting Giannis and then you’re trying and I know I know all your firsts are gone but it’s like I still feel confident like you’ve got Ron who’s only going to be 20 years old and I still not sure if he’s going to be an allstar but his peak outcome is I think an allstar um you still got enough young talent where it’s like I don’t mind selling the farm and players are going to want to come to Detroit if you’ve got Jiannis Kade so yeah I obviously I hate like Assar like I said he’s after Kade he’s the guy I would hate to part with the most just because of the untapped potential and what he brings and just the impact he has. But like Yeah, I have to do that. Having We’re a little redundant, too. Like Yeah, exactly. Like anything. Yeah. Like I I think that’s like I think the B there’s a 0% chance the Bucks say yes to this, but is like that’s like the like the bare minimum salary and being able to report is back in their TPE. Yeah. Like that was the Yeah, I don’t think it happens, but it was just one of those like I was when when they were talking about how Giannis hasn’t agreed that he didn’t want to trade or whatever, like he hasn’t said anything. So, I was like, well, let’s see what what can we send out. I do think as well like JD and Giannis that that would be a pretty good duo defensively. I think that would that that would be really exciting. But, um all right, let’s wrap it up. Rotation. A lot of people wondering who’s playing backup four, who’s playing a backup four. I’ve been banging on about it for about a month and a half on the channel, but I I think I know where I sit now. Um, but what do you think the rotation kind of looks like opening night? And like you can just go off base the roster now or you can predict a potential move, but um, where are you at with it? Yeah, I think similarly to, and I could be wrong, but similar to how they’ve been basically saying they want Ivy to be the backup point guard. They did this last off season, they’re doing it again where they’re not really signing. Now, Caris Liver can do some of that, but they’re not like going to get like a traditional point guard to come in and take those minutes. Um, I think they might do something similar with the four to be honest. Like I think they want to give Ron and Assar as many minutes as they can and with all the guards that they have, the most natural way to do that is giving them some time at the four. Um I don’t love that necessarily. Um but I’m not an NBA coach, so what do I know? Um like I do think Ron and and um Assar both bulked up for a reason. Um and I think Ron can play some four. I do think he’s got the ability to do that size-wise. And so, so I do think most likely that’s what we see. The back of four is a combination of um uh yeah, Ron and Assar and maybe maybe some Bobby minutes, but he didn’t show as much in the summer league as I think we were hoping. Um, but on a night where they need to rest Tobias or do, you know, if they’re doing some maintenance, like why would you why not give him some minutes, like he’s got a NBA skill on passing, he can rebound at the very least. like and if they’re playing a team with a slower four, like if they’re doing a really big like, you know, let’s say it’s like, well, I’m not going to go there, but like if they’re playing a team that has like a a four that they that they think he can stay in front of, why not give him some minutes and see if he can unlock some things. So, I think that’s what they’re going to do. Yeah. Um starts. So, yeah. Go ahead. No, I think even though Bobby like I know his his summer league was disappointed um disappointing and shout out to Deuce for joining us. Appreciate you, brother. Um but I think he is a guy like we even spoke about with Duncan Robinson that could benefit playing alongside someone like Kade or Ivy. So I like I think at summer league he was being asked to his worst moments Bobby I thought were when he was being asked to playmate and have the ball a bit too much and that’s what summer league’s for. He was disappointing. I’m not making excuses for him, but I do think you invested pick 37 in him. I think he’s on a fully guaranteed deal. Like I I think Trejan’s definitely going to want to see him. Not regularly a part of the rotation, but he will get minutes this season. But I think ultimately, yeah, it’s going to be um you brought up Ron and Assar adding weight. I think Ron today posted he’s added 15 pounds. We’re talking kil kilograms here, so I’m not sure what that is, but that’s added added weight and muscle. So, um, yeah, I think I I think I’m pretty much aligned with you on that. But, um, we do have a question here from Camille. Uh, Kyle, do you think we’ll be paying the luxury tax next year? I assume I don’t know if he means in season with a trade or can that even Yeah, I’ll just let you. Yeah, like by next season with the offseason moves and stuff. I would be surprised if they’re not. Um, but there are definitely ways to get better and not do it next year. Um, it really comes down to if they extend Ivy and Duran, if they extend either of them, if they go away from that route, maybe they move both of them and, you know, do make a bigger consolidation move for, you know, the next disgruntled star, whoever that would be. Um, so it’s definitely like if if all things continue and they get better this year with the guys they have, let’s say they extend one of IV and Duran and then they do make a move to go get, you know, they send out Duncan and some of these guys like they’ll definitely be close to the the luxury tax if they make another if they if they bring another guy who’s making 35 plus million, then yes, they’ll be close to that. It would be hard to be competitive without being at the luxury tax at that point. um by 2728 if they’re not paying the luxury tax, something’s gone horribly wrong. Yeah. It means Assar never really lived up to like didn’t add any offense and is only a defensive specialist. So, he’s not going to get a max extension. It means that neither Durn or Ivy got extended and they didn’t replace him with anybody like so 2728 is probably the year that they’re going to be that they’ll be hitting that and expecting to be like top three in the East every year. Um otherwise you’re they’re kind of soft resetting around Kade and figuring something out because yeah they didn’t make a move to try. Um that’s my thought. So maybe next year if things go well, but definitely can be competitive and improve without doing it next year if they’re savvy about it and don’t want to pay it next year. Yeah, I do think with what we’re seeing from Tom Gors as well, he’s still going to be paying for that Monty Williams contract. I I think as well, I don’t think we should have too much fear about any ownership interference with paying the luxury tax if the team’s winning as well. But um that’s going to do it for today’s show, guys. Um, Kyle, thank you so much for jumping on. Uh, everyone, please go follow Kyle on Twitter, Kyle Mets23, as you can see across the bottom there. Um, especially around trade time, off season, fake trades, teaching us all how to understand all these rules. I’m still learning, but um, K, really appreciate you, man, jumping on and taking the time and even relocating to jump on the show. Um, I hope your office isn’t too far from your home, but yeah, appreciate you, my friend. Yeah, not too bad. Uh, pray for my wife. That was a hopefully my hopefully my son went down for bed while I was gone. So, we’ll let you get back home and yeah, everyone, thank you so much for joining us. We’ll be back later in the week, but until then, as always, go Pistons.

Pistons Jack x Kyle Metz — LIVE Offseason Breakdown 🔥

We’re recapping the entire 2025 Pistons offseason — every move made and what’s still to come.

Here’s what we’re covering:
– Full breakdown of all offseason additions (Caris LeVert, Duncan Robinson, Paul Reed, Colby Jones, more)
– Grading the Pistons offseason so far
– Malik Beasley update — could he still return?
– The two open roster spots — who’s left and what realistic moves can Trajan Langdon still make?

By the end of this episode, you’ll have a clear picture of how Detroit can and likely will finish building the roster for 2025–26.

🟡 Drop your predictions and takes in the chat. Let’s talk Pistons!

#PistonsJack #DetroitPistons #PistonsOffseason #MalikBeasley #NBAFreeAgency #NBAOffseason2025 #PistonsRoster #KyleMetz #DetroitBasketball

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