How Tom Dundon’s proposed ownership of the Portland Trail Blazers could shape the franchise’s future

How Tom Dundon’s proposed ownership of the Portland Trail Blazers could shape the franchise’s future

All right, guys. It is an emergency Oregonian sports podcast. 911 425. And I thought I thought I had you on block, but somehow I got through, so here I am. Uh uh. Not do. Guys, the Portland Trailblazers appear to have a buyer. And it wasn’t me. Well, it’s because you’re dropping $49.99 on a on some guy to come put WD40 in your garage door. All right, guys. Inside info. This is the Oregonian sports podcast. Uh, revamped a little bit, but especially for this emergency session. Bill Orum here joined by Aaron Fentress, Joe Freeman. We’re talking Blazers sale today. Aaron has covered the Blazers for the last 5 years. Joe has covered the Blazers off and on and again for us for the last 20 years. So, um, some pretty good perspective coming your way. News came out yesterday morning that the Blazers, uh, have an agreement. And by when I say the Blazers, I really mean the Paul Allen estate have an agreement in place to sell the franchise to Tom Dundan. Not a name that I knew before yesterday at about 8:20 a.m. I don’t know if you guys uh, you know, hang out in those circles. I did a list of prospective buyers had 14 names on it and he wasn’t one of them. Very disappointed. Very disappointed. So he wasn’t on your bingo card. He was not like, “Come on, I got to get I have 14 people on there. Come on. I got to get Erin, you done done dirty?” Okay, we’re up to two on the done. Let’s get an overunder on Dun done for the pod. Mine’s at four and a half. The Dun Dun done podcast. Um, okay. So, we’ve had basically 24 hours to process this news, to learn more, to kind of kick the tires on it. Um, Joe, why don’t you you you kind of handled the the the news for us yesterday? What is what do we know about Tom Dundan and his and and and who he is as he comes, you know, sacheting into the Portland market. Well, he sachets. I guess that happens in Dallas. I don’t know. He he he’s from Dallas, lives in Dallas, owns the uh the most pertinent thing for Blazers fans is is he already is a professional sports owner. He uh owns the the Carolina Hurricanes, the the hockey team in Raleigh and uh has really kind of transformed them or or you know helped transform them into a very successful franchise under his seven years. They’ve made the playoffs all seven years. They’ve made three Eastern Conference finals. Uh they had not made the playoffs, I believe, in nine seasons before his ownership. So, uh the success on the ice in this case speaks for itself. Uh from a financial standpoint, he is his net value is reportedly worth about $2 billion, which you’ve got that tucked away in your couch there, don’t you, Erin? How come you couldn’t couldn’t compete with that? I offered 1.9, bro. I No, you got beat out. He barely Yeah. Yeah. and he has his hands in a ton of stuff. He’s an investor in Topgolf, an investor in Pickle Ball, Inc. He’s uh you know, I thought that’s where you were going to start when he said he’s already a professional sports team owner. You’re going to say uh pro pickle ball. The actually the most interesting nugget I uh one of the most interesting nuggets I came across was that he used to play pickup hoops with Mark Cuban apparently a couple times a week. Reached out to Mark Cuban. He did not return my email yesterday. Surprise, surprise. So, we we’ll keep That’s not That’s not That’s not like cubes. should get back to you. Yeah, I think so. He gets a thousand emails a day. Mark Cuban did. So, well, he needs to have my name front and center there. Doesn’t he know I was on a deadline? Did you hit him on Cyberdust? I did not. I don’t even know what Cyberdust is. Is that like fairy dust or what? What’s going on there? Cyberdust is Mark Cuban’s like personal messaging app that I don’t know who I mean no disrespect to Mark Cuban I don’t know who uses it other than Mark Cuban but there was a time when like if you were a reporter and you wanted to reach Mark Cuban it was the best way was to download Cyberdust register an account find him and send him a message and the messages like disappear so you have to like screenshot his response pretty quickly but I was told yesterday the email works just as well um so maybe Cyberus isn’t that important or maybe it doesn’t work well at all well we’ll try him again here in the in the coming days as we try to work on more stuff about Tom Dundan. He also had uh a couple of local investors and and Bill I know you’re that’s a huge component of this obviously everybody’s fear I don’t need to tell our listening audience is is that this team’s going to be relocated with any new ownership and it seems the only person not worried about that. I think I’ve been I have not been and I’ve long couched it by saying maybe I’m naive and dumb which I’m sure half of our listening audience would would attest to. So um so no in a rare maybe the first of its kind I I agree with I’m not even going to say his name but he’s he’s on this video here. I don’t want anybody clipping that audio for future reference. Can I just the thing that I like Aaron Fentress is right. Joe Freeman says now I’m going to get that clip. Yeah, there you go. just stop it with a period. Okay, I’m just gonna I’m just gonna I’m just going to back up my claim here and just say that my thing has always been that a healthy fear in the situation is good so that you aren’t you don’t get saddled and that you are proactive and prepared. Um I too think the team will stay here, but I don’t think it is a it you know it might be an almost done deal, but I don’t know if it’s a done deal. That’s three. That’s three. We need two more for the over four and a half. Uh uh we can get we can get into the portability issue of the team and and whether or not we totally buy that this is um that this team out is guaranteed to stay here. Uh we might have some different perspectives on that. But Aaron um hearing all that about Tom Dundan, hearing that the team has um that the Carolina Hurricanes have flourished under his under his ownership. I would also point out that he is um he is overseeing a huge uh uh renovation around the arena there in Raleigh where the Hurricanes play. I think that’s an $800 million uh stadium and district project. Somebody should check me on that. There is a sizable remodel of the arena and then I believe it’s a $1 billion and maybe I’m wrong on that but but development plan around the arena and it might the 800 might be what he’s like personally staked for it because I heard that he didn’t put there was an $800 million investment by him. Aaron, go ahead. Sorry. By him if he’s only worth two billion that’s kind of okay. Okay. Anyway, well, I mean, in terms of like his stake, I mean, it could also be stuff that he is like like that he is like things that he is on the hook for. There’s there’s all kinds of finance ways to finance this stuff. It’s not his cash. Okay. Go ahead. So, what I just saw was just a a billion dollar mixeduse development surrounding the arena, but that that included the 300 million for the arena itself. Either way, it’s a lot of money that they’re putting into it, which is something that we all believe needs to happen in the Rose Quarter. And, you know, Jod Allen and company and, you know, not through her, but through, you know, other people put out that they’re planning to do things in the Rose Quarter. There’s, you know, that’s part of the bridge project with the city. And they started with doing the scoreboards, doing the the um reader boards inside screens, etc., etc. So, that was already starting. Were they going to get to a billion? I don’t know. I think we all believe Phil Knight would have dropped a cool billion and revamped that place, but that didn’t happen. But I like the fact that a I mean, I love the fact that he owns a professional team and that there’s a track record of success there, that he took over a franchise that was struggling, got it back on track, that he got to the point where he could get money to however he got it to revamp the area, to rebuild the area, to redo the arena, that because that’s something that the Moa Center definitely needs. So, I think it’s a great fit. I guess my only negative would be, you know, maybe you feel more comfortable with someone worth 10, 15, 20 billion because maybe they’re not going to worry as much about the bottom line. If someone’s worth two billion, are they going to worry more about those things? As a Cubs fan, I know Cubs fans are always pissed because a Rick’s family seems to be counting money because they’re not super billionaires. But at the end of the day, I think this is a good fit because of all the other things I mentioned and the things Joe mentioned. I think I think that that it’s a really good point, too, Aaron. Not just whether he’s worth enough to make you feel good about it, but I’m I’m I’m not sure the math is mathing on this sale just yet. We know three of the names that are involved in this group. I’m I think the group is going to get bigger. Um and you know, our our business team, by the way, just kicked ass yesterday. Matt Kish, Jonathan Bach at the Oregonian. One thing um one thing that I want I wanted to um you know what one thing I wanted to highlight is you know there’s you know there is a push to get local investors involved. These are not going to be the people who come in and buy 20 25% of the team, but getting, you know, local money infused in this team so that there are, you know, local business leaders who have some level of skin in the game. And I thought, you know, I mean, again, so Matt Kish gets Tim Bole on the phone yesterday, you know, chairman of Columbia Sportsware, and Tim Bole has had conversations with Tom Dundan. he is interested in having a what he called a tiny speck of ownership but just enough where he could have you know not decision level um you know not a decision level stake but a voice and you know he said if it helps keep the team here I would want to be invested and I think you know I think the fact that Tom Dundan is making those relationships and creating that kind of coalition is really encouraging for the future of of the team um but I’m still waiting to see if there is another big piece of the financial uh puzzle to No. Is what’s the price tag? It said four 4.3 billion. So it’s so I saw 4.2. Yeah. So nothing official, right? So um you know, Sham said just over four and then I I think Sportico put it at 4.25. So you know, and which by the way is a good price for the Blazers. I think when the team went up for sale, we were kind of all sitting around saying like three and a half, somewhere between three and a half and four. Um remember when Phil Knight made his offer a couple of years ago scoffed and laughed at it. Yeah. It was a joke. Yeah. And and you know I mean say what you will about Jod Allen and you know the the fact that this has been kind of the team has sort of been in um kind of an in between purgatory for the last seven years from a financial standpoint waiting until this moment. You know the value of the team you know has I mean gosh I mean what was the team worth in 2018 relative to now? It’s probably quadrupled. There’s probably a billion dollars in 2018, right? Yeah. Another interesting note about about Tom and it kind of piggybacks on what Fentress was saying is in addition to everything he’s doing to the arena in Raleigh and the surrounding development area in Raleigh, which I think we all uh agree and the league has made clear, Commissioner Adam Silver has said that something needs to be done with with the Moda Center or you know the arena here in Portland. is you I think that there was this idea that the the Hurricanes were going to move or relocate or at least were up for relocating and Tom and his group uh you know stiff armed that and kept that team there and through a public private uh kind of a a situation there with with the arena and I think that that is an immensely important nugget to note with this with him taking over this situation. In many ways, it mirrors what went on there. Uh, obviously, this is a much more popular franchise locally and has a large a deeper um, you know, more successful history than the Hurricanes did. From that standpoint, I if I’m the Paul Allen estate, if I’m Jod Allen, if I’m the the bank that tried to find these people to to, you know, buy the team, that’s an important element for me because I think quietly and and you’ve seen it here and there in in stories that have been written recently. I think quietly there was a condition uh from Jody and from Vulcan to to to keep the team here with any sale. Now, you could say that when you sell it and when an ownership buys it, they could say they did everything they could and they can move it. So, anything could still happen, but I think that that was a driving force for them uh quietly. It was a condition to any sale. And so, you know, like I said, the fact that he’s been through this with an arena that needed updating in a city that’s a smaller market, I I think it all bodess well for for what’s going on here when he takes over. I think those are good par good good parallels. Go ahead, Aaron. Oh, just just add to this talking point. So, I’m I’m reading here that the renovation includes in Carolina includes 540 million from the city and county paid over 28 years. So, it’s it’s not as if he came up with all the money through by himself and private investors. There’s some city and county money as well, which should be a warning to Multma County and the city of Portland that yeah, you might have to come up with some cash. Well, and there’s a reason that he Oh, go ahead, Bill. Well, I was going to say like I don’t want to be like the grim reaper or the angel of death here, but like the fact that we know that the state, city, county, you know, metro is going to need to find some, you know, talk you’re talking about, you know, coins in the couch cushions that they’re going to need to contribute to this either, you know, major renovation to MODA and this idea of a district around the Rose Quarter, uh, which has been talked about for years and there’s a lot happening in in the lower albina district. Um, do we trust Oregon state leaders, local leaders, you know, the Portland, the Portland, the makeup of the Portland city government right now does not seem particularly eager to, to say the least, to like, you know, to levy new taxes particularly for sports and billionaires. Like this is where like I start thinking kind of down the road and you have a new owner who has a is going to have a sparkling you you know revamped facility with a entertainment district just sitting there with only one tenant in the Carolina Hurricanes. I hope that this all goes as smoothly as we’re hoping it as we as we’re projecting. But it doesn’t seem that hard for me to envision a time where you know Tom Dundan and maybe I’m just an overly cynical person and I would accept that criticism. But where Tom Dundan now has leverage on on Portland, on the city to say, “Hey, if you don’t pony up, I got a building in Raleigh.” Now, do I think the NBA wants a team in Raleigh, North Carolina? I do not. Do I think the team wants a sec the league wants a second team in North Carolina at all, given the way things have gone for the Hornets? I do not. But that is leveraged. And I do wonder if Tom Dundan wants to fund two by coastal, you know, entertainment districts or if he’d want to consolidate eventually. So, I I hope that it’s all as as good faith as it seems. I really I I really do. I really want to just be You’re not wrong. This is what happened in Seattle. Yes. And final note, uh I would encourage our listeners to go listen. There was a podcast done by the Ringer called Sonic Boom. How Seattle lost its team. It’s a maybe a six or sevenpart uh podcast. It is incredible. It is incredibly purported. It’s incredibly produced. I stumbled upon it maybe a three or four months ago and I was captured by it and and listened to the whole thing. There was so much that went on behind the scenes that led to to them leaving involving multiple sports teams and taxpayer burnout from taxes and and anyway, we could go on down the list. It’s it’s kind of apples and oranges a situation here and there, but I would encourage people and I might go back and listen to it at this point just to kind of refresh myself. I I will say, you know, one thing that Tom apparently has been very shrewd at, and my guess is it’s because of his history with the Hurricanes, is that he’s already fairly uh playing the political game here. He’s doing it fairly well. I mean, 15 minutes uh yesterday before Senator Ron Weiden had a press conference, he spoke with Dundan on the phone and said, “Hey, BA, I don’t know exactly what he said, but basically I’m I’m going to be the new owner of the Portland Trailblazers.” and we want to keep the team here. Uh, you know, parsing through Widen’s words, Widen has been, uh, you know, he’s a he’s a big sports fan and and, uh, has has long touted his desire to be an NBA player many, many, many moons ago. Um, but he, you know, he’s been in contact with Adam Silver and the league. I think that’s important. We’ve had stuff from new mayor Keith Wilson who’s come out in public support of a public private you know uh situation with the arena and you know it’s not like he’s behind the scenes going we can’t do this we can’t do this we can’t do this so you’ve already got some political uh positivity coming momentum and I think I just can’t it’s so immensely important in something like this if you don’t have the politics and you don’t have the money and you don’t have the spirit of the fans and all that then you’re dead. And I think everything is aligning, at least right now, it seems to me, for for there to be a positive outcome here. So I think if this was a few years ago, I think I would have been less less confident because I mean what like you know and not to throw Ted Wheeler further under the bus that has just run him over and backed over him thousands of times, but like you know there was a a perception that this was not a a city that was, you know, particularly could not get aligned behind sports and did not have an understanding of the value of sports to the economy and and the and and the community. I think Ted Wheeler actually did get it toward the end of his tenure and he did have um throw some weight behind the baseball effort which I mean believe in that as much or as little as you want. Um I think baseball and I’ll give credit to the Diamond Project here. I think they have done a good job of creating some of this alignment that we’re talking about where helping educate local leaders, state lawmakers on the importance of sports. And I think that a lot of that alignment that you’re talking about has come out of the conversations that the Diamond Project and their people have had behind the scenes, you know, for years and years and years and years. And you saw that in the last two legislative sessions where state lawmakers approved funding two sessions ago for the Hillsboro Hops and the Eugene Emeralds uh stadium projects. It’s much smaller scale than we’re talking about with the Blazers. I think did Eugene didn’t happen. So the state approved it got and then the local bonding in Eugene did not pass. So Eugene is likely going to end up going away. They’re going to play one more year in Eugene at this point, but the state did its part. And um and so I think that there has been like a almost like an a year’sl long education here that has kind of prepared all these agencies we’re talking about for the moment of when the Blazers come and ask and that it’s not just going to be hey give us money. It’s going to be let’s do this together. And I think that I think that there will be a positive outcome there. And I think that I think that the people that are being having that asked of them will will ultimately be receptive. I think there’ll be push back for sure. Like I look at the city of Portland and the makeup there um there’s going to be a lot of push back I think within the city council. Uh obviously we know that you know nothing’s this I have a hard time seeing this being a a clear runway through the legislature. Um, you know, the the $800 million uh bonding for baseball was future tax of player income that is not yet in the state. The Blazers have been paying taxes into the state for decades. So, people will view that as taking money away from essential services. But if the flip side of it is if you don’t if you don’t use that mechanism and divert that player income tax and the team leaves, you’re not getting that tax money in the state anyway. So, it’s so facto. It’s kind of the same thing. Um, and the and this is where I give credit to like the Rip City Forever group that emerged two weeks ago, Chris Dudley, Marshall Glickman, Joth Richie. Um, maybe they thought they were gonna have a little more time as like the lone voice of this thing. Like now all of a sudden there’s a new owner, but like they still want to work with with the new owner, but they wanted to be having the conversations with lawmakers and local leaders that kind of got them ready for the kinds of conversations that they’re going to need to have with a new owner. And so I think that there has been like some real foresight in this process to avoid a situation like Sonics Gate like you’re talking about um where they were caught off guard and the docu What was the documentary? Was the documentary called Sonics Gate? I think so. Yeah. And it ends with one of the state lawmakers saying like we were blindsided like we didn’t see this coming. And I think that that has been instructive to everybody here that you can’t you cannot be reactive. Erin, anything on that before I I flip this? No, I was just going to make a point before you more eloquently did so. It’s just that it just seemed bizarre to me that anyone would worry about getting money from the state for the Blazers when they came up with 800 million for a baseball team that does not exist. Now, you made the point that that’s for future tax, you know, future taxes on a $170 million payroll that doesn’t exist yet. Whereas the Blazers taxes already exist because the team is here. But still, like you said, if the if the option is losing the team, therefore you lose all of that, then it just doesn’t make sense to me that you wouldn’t come up with the public money. As for Portland, you’re 100% right. It’s just such a wild card. You you just don’t know how people are going to choose to view a situation where you’re pumping money into an entity that’s worth billions and players are making obscene amounts of money uh comparative to the rest of us. And that a lot of people don’t like that. They just they they hate it to the point where they’re going to try and rebel against it no matter what. But I just think the Blazers are different. I I think Rip City’s different. I just have not been able to wrap my mind at all around any pathway to this team losing. But excuse me, leaving but losing I can imagine, of course, but since I just covered the worst four-ear stretch since the first four years of the franchise. Thank you, Joe. I’m putting that on you, Joe. You’re welcome. Anyway, I’m not mad about it. I know. So, I I just can’t fathom it happen. But like you said, Bill, I mean, you made a good point. It’s good to It’s smart to be cautiously optimistic and wonder because at the end of the day, you truly never know. Although, I think I do. And and I just think in addition to everything that we’ve sort of summarized here, I just think the league really took it on the chin with the Sonics in in so many ways. Yeah. And really Oklahoma City, that’s a whole another conversation. Just the the the behind the scenes maneuvering and the manipulation and and everything that went in there. I think they want to do everything in their power and they’re not completely, you know, all powerful there. It’s a vote for the NBA board of governors and it will either be approved or not and then it so on and so forth. But I don’t think they want to lose the Blazers from Portland and I don’t think they want another hit like that that they took with the Sonics and and I think the league learned a lot from that experience. You know, the Sonics have this brand new sparkling building. They’re ready for a team. I think they’re next up if and when the league expands, but I just don’t see them moving Portland to Seattle. And I don’t see them uh barring another, you know, collapse, them moving another team there. Um I mean, maybe I’m naive. I I just feel like as much as anything, they’re using Seattle as a leverage for development, for remodel or rebuilds here and in other cities. And they’ll dangle that as long as they can until Seattle gets a team. Again, I’ll continue to say this until I’m wrong. I could be naive. I could be dumb. I I I just firmly believe that, you know, for everything we’ve talked about and that black eye, I just don’t see this team leaving. Um it it’s like uh I think I think, you know, Seattle is a stocking horse does make a lot of sense. The reality is that expansion, the momentum behind expansion has has really has really sputtered out. I think that’s the fact that that is happening at the same time that Blazers are are available is really is is what makes it sort of feel kind of urgent. And one thing that has come up in a lot of my conversations on this, you know, Joe, you made the point that Jody, you know, is is likely trying to negotiate in a in a way that would keep the team here and find ownership that would keep the team here. You also wouldn’t want to like take away your own leverage in a negotiation. And portab portability has a lot of value. And so I I think that there’s like a dance there. You want to find somebody who’s going to keep the team here, but still the possibility of like, hey, if things don’t work out, you know, you have the option to do what you want. The other thing about the NBA, completely agree, like Adam Silver and the people who actually work in the NBA, the last thing they want is for a new owner to come in and apply for relocation of the Trailblazers. But the reason because if they apply for relocation at that point, there’s not going to be a lot to you can do to stop it because that means that you’ve already tried to get the public funding for your projects. You’ve you’re encounter encountering push back. You know that there are other options. Let’s say Tom Dun doesn’t want to move a team to Raleigh because he knows Raleigh can’t support two, you know, yet another pro sports team, but Seattle’s there, Vegas is there, Nashville will build you a stadium or an arena. Um, and the reason, and you made the point about the vote and the board of governors, the reason that people don’t think that the board of governors would block a team moving is because they don’t want the others to stop them from doing what they want to do with their team eventually. Exactly. And so that that is why that becomes a bit of a runaway train if things don’t go smoothly here or if the city council gets in the way and says pay for it your damn self, you know. Um but I think and I wrote about this or I tried to write about this in my column today. I think the Blazers relationship with Portland is just different. I don’t think this is just a sports team. I don’t think it’s just a basketball franchise. When you look at modern Portland and how Portland has grown into a, you know, a modestly sized but a major league city, that all can be tied back to 1970 and the beginnings of the Portland Trailblazers. The shared identity we have with with 1977, even if we weren’t alive for it, Aaron. Um, but what is your favorite memory from the championship parade, Aaron? I wasn’t here yet. Oh, okay. You You’re on the ground, though. Well, my I was what? You were on the ground like you were walking or crawling. You I wasn’t in Portland. My my grandmother lived in Eugene. I remember them winning it and I remember I remember watching the next year when they lost to to the Sonics, but I don’t remember them watching. But but like I think we would agree that like the cultural significance of the Blazers and like the unifying tissue for this community is just bigger than like hey is the team any good this year? And so I think that’s I think that civic sort of institutional connection is is going to be what wins the day and the economic impact of having this team here. The the identity of being a major league city. You take the Blazers out, you know, we become what? Louisville, De Moines. Like I don’t think Portland wants that. I don’t think anybody on the city council wants that. So I think that that’s where No offense to our Louisville and De Moines listeners. Have you been to De Moines? No. Louisville’s great though. Louisville is great. Uh Omaha. Do we become Omaha? You’ve Joe Joe, you’ve recently spent some time in Omaha. Pass. Okay. So, a lot of talk about the arena, what the the you know where the money for the arena is going to come from. Aaron, you’ve had these conversations with Dwayne Henkins. I have. Joe, I’m sure you have over your time as well about you know what the future of Moda Center could look like, what the future of the Rose Quarter could look like. We’ve been talking about the Rose Quarter as an entertainment district for nearly 40 years. Um, and it has to that point I remember having conversations when Larry Miller was the president and and they had all these plans and I’ve I’ve sat through these things and it’s just nothing nothing has come to fruition. Sorry to cut you off, but I mean it goes back decades. Well, and that leads to the the question of is it even possible at the Moda Center and at the Rose Quarter? Um, does it need does it need to be somewhere else? When you hear, you know, Rip City Forever drops, you know, you know, they drop the little Easter egg of Lloyd Center in in their thing, you know, is there an argument to, you know, build a brand new building and entertainment district and tear down Moa Center and and utilize that land differently? Um, you know, one thing that came up in one of my conversations recently is that there’s only 8 acres of developable developable land around the Moto Center on the Rose Quarter property as opposed to 60 at the Lloyd Center. That said, you know, the vision of the Rose Quarter has always been riverfront like paradise oasis like you know, you they’re not making any more riverfront property. This could this is an iconic location and yet for 40 years it hasn’t happened. So, I mean, do you need more than 8 acres? I I don’t I don’t know like what does like how much I mean, I suppose it depends on what you’re really trying to do and what you’re really trying to put in. If you just want to put in like a um you know, a Topgolf studio and a couple of restaurants like I mean, oh, by the way, there’ll be a Top Golf studio now, right? This guy like is a part owner of Topgolf. There’s going to be in the mezzanine up there. It’s going to be in Paul Allen’s old apartment at the top of the Moa Center. I do like the idea of like what if there was like Okay, now now I just get to dream. Like what if there was like a giant like mesh system like out o over the Wamut and you got to like hit balls just funneled back to back to land or like into the river but there’s like a giant mesh that like then like you know like kicks them back that you’re hitting balls into the river like off the 300 level. I don’t know if I could I don’t know if I could reach the the river from the 300 level. I’m a pretty bad golfer. I think the main problem is that damn coliseum. Yeah, I was going to bring that up. I mean, I don’t know if that’s baseball. It should be a baseball stadium holding the Beavers right now and then being able to be expanded into a major league team, but Oh, that goes back to the city that you’re not sure you trust, Bill, right? Is that Yeah. Well, and the fact and and I mean I mean and the Coliseum, by the way, is currently undergoing renovations and upgrades and is they’re making better. So they’re making it better so it can last for more generations of people to go see Disney on Ice or whatever. Um, yeah, great. My kids saw Disney at Ice. It was actually at the Mot Center. So that’s not even that’s not even there. They’re just watching their Winterhawks there. And I covered the US ice skating re ice skating championships were there a long time ago and I help I helped cover that. I touched the Stanley Cup there a few years ago. I guess you’re not supposed to touch it, but I did it anyway. Un unless you unless you like win it and then you can do literally anything you want with it. You can drink from it. You can pee in it. You can like play catch with it on a lake like I also sat in the Back to the Future Delorean there. There was a a thing a few years ago for some reason. It was their Blazer. Oh yeah. Yeah. The Blazers media day or something or other. I can’t remember exactly what it was, but that was that was nice. I think it was like 80s. They were flashing back to the 80s or something. It was great. I did go to the like the flashback in a different chapter of my life. If I went and Joe, you were probably there. Remember when they did a a preseason game against Phoenix there in like 2008 and it was like a throwback like and and and they had the Sean’s call the game on the radio. Yeah, it was great. It was horrible to cover but it was great to be there. Yeah, it was cool. I was there. I was there as a fan. My girlfriend met Terry Porter in the foyer. Very nice fellow. I will say arena wise covering the NBA the last five years we we haven’t done a ton of traveling. The first my first year was a co year and then after that we you know we were basing traveling on their success and as I just said not much there but I did make it out to a lot of arenas and and mostly in the Western Conference and it’s clear when you go into some of these places how much nicer nicer they are. I mean Sacramento is beautiful. The Delta Center is amazing. Of course in it is just stupid. Like it’s just that’s on a different level down in LA. Um so yeah I mean work needs to be done. I’m not an architect. You know, I I I said in our chat the other day, oh, they could just throw a few hundred million at it and be okay. And Bill’s like, well, you know, state-of-the-art. You got to be state-of-the-art. And so, you know, I’m not going to sit here and claim to know how that all can work, but I just I feel like the Motus Center is still pretty nice, especially on the outside. Like, I still think it’s it’s a very functional building. Absolutely. Exactly. And so, it just it just needs a facelift. Just needs an upgrade. I don’t think it needs to be torn down and rebuilt or you have to go somewhere else. But if you’re talking about the surrounding area in terms of what you want, I just don’t know if you need more than 8 acres, but again, I can’t imagine necessarily what that even means in terms of comparing it to other uh footprints, but I I just I think there’s it’s doable to keep it there. I would like to see it stay there. Lloyd Center doesn’t and it doesn’t turn me on as much. I like the waterfront situation. So, I hope they can figure it out and just keep it where it is. me personally just for just just for context here because I think this is something we can at least the three of us can can uh can envision and we’ve been there. Um LA live is 27 acres. Yeah. And see but you don’t we’re not LA like so we don’t I don’t I don’t think of LA I don’t I don’t think of LA live as like a sprawling complex like it feels feels relatively compact. Um, so a few things that jump out to me about the arena and like you know I don’t spend a lot of time in luxury suites like you do Aaron but um you know they are far they’re far they’re far from the court. Um you know they are very dated. Luxury experience is like a big part of the is is a big part of the modern arena. One other thing is like an integrated experience. If you are not in your seat in the MOA center, you cannot see the game. Or if you are standing in like one of those little uh doorways, there is somebody telling you to either go to your seat or or step out of the bowl. And and the thing with new arenas and modern arenas is you can get up and go get a drink or a cotton candy or whatever and you still have a sighteline to the game. And Phoenix blew out like one end of their seating to put in like a a deck bar area. That’s really cool. Um Brooklyn has that too. Yeah, that and Sacramento like Sacramento and both Chase when they in San Francisco when they built their new arenas like you you can like walk it’s like almost like a like like what you would think of like in a newer baseball stadium where it’s like you’re walking and you still have like sightelines. Um I think that that’s something that they’re missing. There have been a lot of conversations around just the the gloom and lack of um vibrancy like when you show up to a game outside. Um you know you those lines have gotten I don’t know the last time you guys went through like the main entrance of of the of the Rose Garden like with a ticket for a game. I went through with with my kids this year. I know it’s crazy. It’s but the people listening to this podcast know what we’re talking about. Yeah. I did that last year, Bill, and it was a blank show. it it was too long and it was too much. Um, don’t show that tip off. I agree. I agree with you on that. I’m And so now you’re doing it at 6:30 at night. It’s raining, you know? It’s And so like that has been part of it. Like how can you how do you how do you make that not such a miserable experience? Do you need to like rethink the way the the entrances work and how people actually get into the game? Um, you do you need a covered, you know, like atrium? Uh, and then and then also like how do you create an energy around the arena on game night so you don’t you don’t feel like you’re like, you know, shuffling into a funeral and to get smacked in the face with, you know, noise and lights. I think that the whole I think that whole like like there should be an experience from the moment you get out of your car. Yeah. And there’s things they can do with those parking garages. There’s land over there. They can re reimagine all of that and and the streets. they could sort of, you know, redirect some of that stuff to create more space. I I agree. I I I mean, I’ve been to almost every arena. Maybe a couple of the newer ones I haven’t seen during my 5year absence, but it’s not that far away. It’s not like some albatross. I mean, the coliseum is is ridiculous, of course. I mean, that’s and that’s the difference. I think the Moa Center is fine from the exterior. Paul Allen did a really good job imagining that and it it almost was looked like a spaceship at the time and now it it held up over 30 years. And of course after 30 years the interior needs it needs to be you know it needs a facelift and there are smart architects and smart people that can come in and and imagine and and give everything that needs to be done there at a much you know lower cost than building a brand new billion multi-billion dollar arena. um that is just, you know, wasting material and land and all that stuff. And so I get the push for the Lloyd Center. I think the Diamond Project wanted that at one point and it’s a valuable underused piece of land. I know that they’re turning the old Nordstrom’s into a a music venue, right? You know, that’s in the plans and it’s there. The built-in transit’s there. It’s it’s a very easy thing to develop. And so if some architect comes in and they decide they can’t do it, then that makes sense. But I think the most sense makes sense to to keep MODA redo it and and I just maybe I’m crazy. I just don’t think it’s that far off from being a very modern up-to-date arena. It doesn’t I mean it needs to be overhauled, but it’s not like just this albatross that’s sitting there. There are also a lot of other projects. You brought up Phoenix. Phoenix was a dump. Yes. It’s the same age by the way. Or it might even be a little bit older. It’s Yeah, it’s in my list of the oldest at the Sorry, the top eight oldest Blazers were tied with Boston for number seven. Phoenix was in that list, but Phoenix 1992. Yeah, Phoenix had gotten to almost where Key Arena was. Key Arena was untenable, right? And so it’s like Memorial’s ahead of where Phoenix was before its remodel. And its remodel according to articles I keep finding was only 245 million. But what year? Because yeah, I mean double or triple it. It’s only been it’s only been a few years though. Yeah. So probably double it. Double it. Like 2019. Is it 2019 or something? Or um this says it says 22. It’s pretty recent. I covered the game before they did redid it cuz I remember thinking the scoreboard was just heinous. No, the point is that it’s not a billion or two billion that you put on top and then you’re going back to the the taxpayer and the public, you know, the city and state. Is there an appetite to go to one or two billion to build a new arena when you could perfectly remodel or excuse me, remodel a perfectly good building now? cuz it’s it’s been it’s being and I think I think the um I think where there might end up being and and listen a lot of this is going to depend on the whims of of Tom Dundan and what he envisions being a worthwhile project and like what what his appetite is for you know a really really huge swing but like you know is you know there is there is renovating the building and giving it a facelift and you know getting it to a level that the NBA can be happy with and that maybe doesn’t you know stretch the pockets of of the legislature or the city as much as something else But we also are in a time where Portland is like still kind of crafting its identity coming out of COVID and and and 2020. And is there like a major swing or a really like moonshot way of thinking about the Blazers where they play, what kind of district they play in that transforms Portland in a major major major way. Yeah, that’s a good point. Yeah, like a new Pearl District sort of revitalization sort of situation. But that’s but that’s also like you know that is a that is going to require incredible buyin, incredible vision, incredible money and and you know we pointed out you know earlier that you know Tom Dundan is not the deepest pocketed um owner in the NBA if assuming we can just start calling him the owner of the Blazers. He’s not going to be he’s not Balmer. He’s not um Larry Ellison who tried to buy NBA teams for years. Um, so I think, you know, that’s worth keeping in mind, like not is he going to want to do this on the cheap, but is he going to have the appetite to do the, you know, the three billion or let’s just say the $ 1.5 billion project. Um, I don’t know. So, the Suns Arena concluded or excuse me, the project concluded in 2122, FYI, just to get that out there. Um, okay. I also like I I would also say like having been there like I think they did like an amazing job with that like deck and bar area, but you leave that like huge atrium and bar area and like walk around the concourse. The concourse to my recollection is still narrow. Still feels dated. It’s dated. Yeah. And so I think they did a huge they did one huge piece. And so it’s it I I I don’t know if that’s strictly the model, but that one piece of it I think is really cool. I’ll tell you what, nothing’s uh more outdated than the visitors locker room. Oh my gosh. It’s actually amazing. Sacramento’s a lot of arenas are like that. When I would go on the road with them, I’d be like, “This is a tin can. How do you fit?” I think some of it’s on purpose. 15 7 foot dudes in this thing. Yeah. Well, it used to be like I mean I mean Aaron, did you ever cover a game at the Palace at Auburn Hills or had they already had the Pistons already moved to downtown Detroit? Have you ever I covered uh before I left I I covered the new arena. So he never went to that that dump. So the p the palace was like famous for you know and like in the in in you know in the finals you know turning on the cold the you know turning off the hot water and like having stale popcorn and rotten and rotten sandwiches. Like it was it was a whole thing. Great clubhouse attendant though. Uh the Palace the Palace and Sacramento were the worst visiting locker rooms before their new arenas by far. But like and like listen uh my former co-host on this podcast, Brena Green, would be quick to tell you that Portland and the visiting locker room is is up there as well. And is it is it is tiny. Yeah. It is very very small. Um you know, you see like and especially as these traveling parties have gotten bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger and there’s like nine massuses and 15, you know, like strength coaches and two plane they need two planes now. Everything has everything has pushed out of the locker room into the hallway into like so it’s like you can’t really walk that back hallway without like stepping over an NBA player to get to the Blazers locker room. So there is a so whatever happens I mean I guess it’s going to involve like expanding. I think it’s just illustrative. Yeah, it’s it’s illustrative of where the arena is at and the improvements that need to be made. It’s something that no fan would either care to know about or know about, but it’s just when you’re inside, you you see the dated. But again, and I I do like your point, Bill, about if you imagine big and you take a big swing, you can do some, you know, major improvements to neighborhoods in the city, well, then I guess I get the investment, uh, because you’re looking big picture. Um, but assuming that you’re gonna you’re going to keep here, I just don’t think that it’s going to take that big of an effort to make it a to update it into a modern beautiful facility. What I want to see if it stays at the Rose Quarter and the Mot Center is I want to see a real riverfront like a real waterfront in this city. That silos in the way, man. I know. But you’ve got that even if you go a little bit north where the Aian parking lot is like how do you figure out how to integrate the Rose Quarter with the river across to downtown like you know I mean there’s all sorts of things. Are there are there water taxis that bring people over from downtown and like you know can you have like real river views and a real river experience while you’re at a game or when you’re you know dining before the game? I just want to see like and yes the silos you know are a historic problem but like can you figure out how to make this like you know to borrow from the from the diamond project with their stadium project an iconic location for Portland that is like a you know a crown jewel that when people see images of Portland they see this beautiful arena sitting right on the edges of the river and they’re like I want to go there that city looks cool 100%. You know, a little known fact is uh Louis Drive Louis Drifus Julia Lou Drifus. Louis Yep. They part of the family was the silo and they own that silo. Yeah. Some fun negotiations it sounds like in the in over the years between Paul and Julia Lou Drifus’s dad. Didn’t go well. So if if we’ve exhausted that topic before we go, should we address what this could mean for for the team itself, i.e. the front office, the coaching staff, the I just don’t think we know at all. We don’t know at all. And and that’s that’s the next phase of this. What did he do in in Carolina? I haven’t dug into that yet. Okay. I haven’t taken a deep dive here, but he became the majority owner in 2018, and that was the year they changed coaches to their current current coach. And they had missed the playoffs nine straight years, right? And so I’ve been I’ve been of this my since the team was announced. Well, yeah, even before that eventually it it was going to be sold that if a new owner t the history of sports shows this, right? If the new owner takes over a franchise that is losing they clean house pretty quickly. Yeah. You know, within a year at least. Um it happened in I wrote I wrote about this happened in Charlotte, I think Minnesota. Now Houston when Houston was purchased um Daryl Mor and Danton were winning in the very first year. year than the ownership. They won 60 games. Like, so there was no reason to say, “I’m going to blow this up.” So, if I’m an owner and I’m coming up with $4 billion to buy the Blazers, and you’ve missed the playoffs, if you miss it next year, five straight years, you had four lottery picks, four off seasons, you traded Damen, the most popular player in franchise history, and CJ, and you still aren’t winning. And then if you look at the roster and you’re like, eh, there’s some nice pieces here, but nothing that moves the needle to make me think that we’re going to be a difference in the West of all places as well. Why are you not going to make moves? Cuz he has no affiliation whatsoever with Chanty or Cronin. And let’s also remember this is not a dig at Cronin, but Cronin was hired because they fired OSHA and didn’t want to do a search, right? It wasn’t like they did an exhaustive search and came up with Cronin. They just elevated Cronin because they were too lazy to do a search and they probably knew that it would be tough to go out and do a search and bring in a marquee proven GM because you got to sell the team at some point, right? So why does a marquee GM want to take that job if they don’t know who the owner is going to be in the next couple years? So I that’s one of the reasons why I was stunned this off season that they haven’t made win move win or enough win now moves to really make sure they can get over 500 maybe get into the plan because everyone has got to feel like their job could be in jeopardy if this guy isn’t patient with this current rebuild which has already been several years. So the sale is going to take what uh Boston just took five months. It took five months. So September, October, November, December, January. So, so the sale will become official in the midway through the season or or nearing the end of the season. So, they’ve got this season to prove themselves. Maybe too. I I would say maybe too because you don’t just come in and the first thing you do is clean house. You get to know people and all that stuff. It’s not like the ownership has this history in the NBA where they’re intimately familiar with the inner workings. You don’t just come in and chop stuff up, you know. So I I think the regime has two years to to prove that they are, you know, capable of turning it around. And I think they think they’ve made moves to get that in the right direction. And so I I agree with you in that I think there’s a two-year kind of timeline here for that. Yeah. But we also don’t know if he has a list. He could have a short list. He could have connections. He could have friends. He could have his boys. Like if Bill bought a team tomorrow, he’s hiring Joe as the GM and GM and Joe’s hiring me as the coach. And now he’s not hiring me for the GM. He’s hiring me for something, but it’s not for the GM. My point is that these guys have friends who have friends and there’s there’s connections. There’s your dudes. That’s all I’m saying. I I think I think that that’s I think that that’s often true. And I think that like if that’s the case, then like all bets are off, right? Like if this is somebody who’s going to come in and like want to shake up, then like that’s just that’s just the way it is. I think the level-headed way of looking at this, I agree with Joe. It’s I would say you get a full year. And so if this is going to, you know, last into the midway point of the season, you know, everybody’s being evaluated the second half of the season. I think things would have to be a pretty significant crater to then say, “Okay, at the end of next season, once you’ve only been there for half a half a season, we’re making we’re making wholesale changes.” Now, you might make the other changes. You might say, “Hey, we want to we want to redo our scouting department, you know, like or whatever.” But you I I don’t see you saying, “We’re getting rid of the president. We’re getting rid of the GM. We’re getting rid of the coach.” But like I think everybody has to understand that you are you are being uh evaluated that this is and and I would argue that probably overtime everybody there like in these prominent roles we’re talking about will be replaced one because that’s the nature of the business and two owners want to get their own people in place. Exactly. Owner wants to hire their president. The president wants to hire their GM. The GM wants to hire their coach. And there are GMs out there who have rings. Yes. Well, who are available? Yeah. And coaches. I think they got till next summer. I’m I’m I’m sticking with that. I think if they have another losing season, I think again I don’t know Tom from a hole in the wall, but I think they have this season to win or it’s going to be trouble. But I also think like what does win mean? And like if if Tom Dundan believes in the trajectory of this team in the way that Joe Cronin and you know Dwayne Henkins and Chanty like talk about it if he believes that the trajectory is truly what they are talking about then winning the getting to 500 like is you know relatively like that’s not winning at a high level but you’re moving in the right direction. Does he buy into that and and the pace at which you’re doing it? Also with the knowledge, by the way, that you have um like I would argue guaranteed butts in the seats for the 26 27 season because Damen Alert’s at whatever level he’s he’s playing, right? All right. So before you go listen to Sonic Boom as recommended by Joe Freeman, make sure you leave a five-star review and tell your friends that the Oregonian Sports Podcast and affiliated podcasts have not completely gone away. We’re going to get back in the swing of things here. You’re going to see things being a little bit different. Aaron’s doing uh Duck Confidential. Aaron Duck Confidential with George. You see, I got my little prop right here. Duck helmet. There it is. There it is. And I’m gonna get a I’m gonna get a helmet for every team in the Big 10 and put them up there and have them clash every week. You know, it’s kind of a little thing here. Hey Aaron, give us the uh since we’re doing a little bit of cross promotion here, give us the the 15sec your 15-second preview of the Ducks. What have you seen so far this morning? I don’t think Fentress can say anything in 15 seconds. This is a test. Uh they got to fill 18/19 starter holes, a new quarterback who was mediocre in UCLA, but it’s probably improved a lot. I see them winning at least nine games. I got to see the first three non-conference games. really have an idea of where they are based on the passing game which they’re replacing their top receivers and top tight end as well and four offensive linemen. M Miss Mr. Sunshine Aaron Feners, ladies and gentlemen, I said at least nine wins. Come on. That’s pretty good. That’s pretty good. Yeah. All right, Joe. We will uh continue to monitor the Blazers uh trajectory this sale, which is fascinating. I appreciate you guys making time for this emergency podcast on a Thursday morning. Is this is this our official baton passing right here? it. I think it’s happening or it’s certainly passing the baton. It’s a murky area. Wait, Joe, you gota be like this. Stick your arm back down. I’m just I’m collecting it. Joe Joe was not going to do the fake running thing that you were doing. There was no chance. No, he wasn’t. All right. All right, gentlemen. Thank you so much for the time. Uh, and great perspective. Enjoyed it. Uh, I’m pretty sure our listeners did, too. And we’ll be back and do this again soon. Thanks, guys. Thank you. See you.

The proposed sale of the Trail Blazers to Texas billionaire Tom Dundon sparked a new round of questions about the future of Portland’s NBA franchise, including… Who is Tom Dundon?

On an emergency episode of the Oregonian Sports Podcast, Bill Oram, Joe Freeman and Aaron Fentress explain what we know about the 53-year-old businessman, including what has happened to the NHL’s Carolina Hurricanes in the seven years since he became that team’s majority owner.

Also discussed on this episode:

• Is Dundon the right leader for this franchise going forward?
• Does this agreement really ensure that the Blazers are no longer at risk of leaving?
• What is the true future of the Moda Center? What will it take to make the building a state-of-the-art facility?
• Should Dundon just renovate the Blazers existing home or does Portland need him to dream bigger?
• What impact will the ownership change have on the current team?
• … and much more.

***
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