I mean bad calls happen, but for the refs and officials to not take any accountability and to have such double standards is just inexcusable. OKC is a great defensive team, let them be defended like they defend and that's it. And call fouls for crying out loud. Ain't no way players like Giannis, Steph, Ant and (to some extent) Jokiç that don't flop are hacked and mangled all the time and SGA and Luka get whiffed and rewarded.
Its not even just the thunder its NBA rules and officiating as a whole. The gather step shenanigans, the super obvious carries and travels, foul baiting that has gone from trying to draw contact to going out of your way to be the person who initiates it, the lack of a flowing offense. I still love the highlights and freedom but its gone too far. It all really ruins the beauty of basketball imo but Im not allowed to have that opinion because it makes me an oldhead at 22. Then people say "dont watch then" or "you don't actually like the NBA". What sense does that make? I WANT to watch basketball and I DO like the NBA but that doesn't mean you can't improve it significantly. There still are great games and moments of pure clean basketball and it can easily be changed because we still see it time to time.
Offense feels so cheap in this league that I don't even get excited of a 40 point game anymore.
2005-2006 to 2014-2015 had on average 18 20.0+ ppg scorers a year.
2015-16 to 2024-25 saw an average of 30 per season.
It’s the classic case of “he’s a good defender” bias. Players with a reputation of being a good defender gets the benefit of the doubt when defending and OKC has a ton of players with that rep. Let Duncan Robinson play aggressive defense like Lu Dort. He would foul out in 3 minutes even if he was on OKC.
cant blame them because thats observation is so true… dort, caruso, wallace and other okc players are allowed by refs to go hard on defense while the opponents cant even touch SGA.
It's all going exactly as planned. OKC is the villain built buy the NBA…..They win a ship with refs backing them and with Silver's stamp of approval so that they can play the villain role which in turn then allows a big market team to become the proverbial 'Hero'. Don't be suprised if the Warriors, Lakers, Denver or Houston end up knocking them off in the WCF
Thunder is a killer team and they play to their own advantage. Refs are frustrating. The rules of the NBA have been interpreted loosely to allow offense and make it harder to defend though, which takes away a lot of the contention that makes basketball a great product to watch.
As a wolves fan, love my team but we could (and should) take some pages out of that thunder book. Don't be afraid to get physical if the refs allow it! Set that tone and take advantage
Their defence is not only good because of the physicality, if it was the case then most teams could do the same. And if you watch carefully you see that they don't constantly take risks for steals. They have an incredible help and recover defence, they were getting used to these help patterns and playing amazing defence even before the arrival of the Holmgren. In general they got steals because of the traps they lay for the opponent guards, not because of the individual risks the defenders take and that's why their foul numbers are middle of the pack.
the reason why we hate okc since referees always help okc.Last year playoff we can see referees' decisions are very poor.Antman,Gobert,Randle,Mathurin,Durant complaint referees.Chris Finch also complaints referees.
It's the double-standards and hypocrisy that's annoying: Caruso got visibly mad over a very soft foul call that he didn't get against the Spurs in the Cup semis in the last minute of play – while he was getting away with (at least) 5 uncalled fouls in the last 3 minutes of that same game, 2 on Wemby and 3 on Castle ! Castle, who notoriously drives to the basket non-stop, only shot 2 free throws in that game – and those came from an obvious take-foul to stop the clock by OKC. Castle got hacked all game and didn't get a single foul call !
The free throw numbers are not important in this conversation. Anyone saying that it is is just plain dumb. 1 uncalled defensive foul is 4point swing, sometimes even 6. Do it 5 times a game you're down 20. Only need to shoot 5 more free throws.
Its seems like whenever a team gets a reputation for being a good defense (or especially a "gritty" defense) they are just allowed to get away with so much more. Coming from a Knicks fan feel like we benefited from this 2 years ago.
Very aggressive defensive teams usually aren’t league leaders in fouls the 04 pistons were 26th in fouls and the bad boy pistons in the years they won were 15th and 10th.
The problem is every other team gets called for far less physicality than what OKC is allowed. You don't have to be an expert or analyze advanced stats to see that. And SGA being the blatant grifter that he is and getting all the calls only makes it worse. Should've lost to the Nuggets in 5 last year.
I want to love OKC. It’s a Cinderella story on paper. There’s just too many examples of them getting away with murder while complaining if they get the same treatment from the refs. IHart yelling “that shit was a foul!” In the tunnel after the Spurs cup game was the most ironic and spoiled reaction he could’ve possibly had lmao
It’s just the dichotomy of it. On one end, you have one of the most notorious grifters in the NBA (wether you like him or not isn’t relevant here, SGA is among the most blatant FT grifters in the NBA), and then you have one of the most aggressive defenses in the league who most definitely get away with the most no calls in the league today.
It makes sense, SGA is a superstar with a superstar whistle, and he sells HARD on every time he even thinks he’ll get contact, and the OKC have the best defensive personal in the league, therefore nobody on their team looks out of place when playing defense, because if everyone on their team is getting away with these smaller infractions, they won’t get called as frequently as a different team with only 1-2 guys who do that aggressive defense (think Marcus Smart and Vando on the Lakers).
They’ve essentially mastered conditioning the refs to call the game the way they want to. That being said, while I think the Thunder are the greatest benefactor of the officiating, they are in no way the only ones this applies to. The entire league needs to have a chat with the officials, get them on the same page, and make these games consistent. Every night these plays are getting called differently, and it’s not just a slight difference, it’s massively different. It should never be THIS consequential to a teams success that they adjust to what the refs decide to do on a night to night basis.
Stop handing out techs to guys for barely looking your way, stop spinning the roulette wheel on what’s going to get called on a night to night basis, and stop doubling down on clearly wrong calls when asked to review.
Listen, I’m sure this is the common take the main problem is the dissonance which you mention in the video. It’s really shitty to watch Dort do what he does into sga getting a ticky tack foul on the other end.
If okc games are properly called they should be around 3+ hours long, game will get stopped a lot, caruso will foul out in 15 minutes, etc. NBA is entertainment business and this is exactly why the refs are helping the okc, because a properly officiated okc game will be extremely boring to watch, but they should realize their double standard is making the game even more unwatchable.
I love and appreciate OKC hard physical of defense I grow up on that style with my 04 Pistons, but I don't like the opposing team can't play that style back on OKC especially Shai. Like You can't even touch him & Shai don't get foul calls as what people thinks, but his foul bait kills moment of the game when teams be on a run its irritating to watch.
Why would anyone be mad at the thunder though? This seems to be a reffing issue or even an every other team issue. If the refs are gonna let more stuff go then play aggressive! People are always gonna complain. I remember before the great okc takeover the big thing was “teams aren’t playing aggressive enough” and “it’s boring just watching shooting and no defense”. Now we have a team playing uber aggressive they’re upset again. People don’t realize they are actually just mad their teams for getting stripped and scored on and not even trying to do it back.
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what if they didnt hold finch back
https://x.com/FunkyDiabetic1
People complain about the NBA being soft and then complain when OKC plays tough. Make it makes sense
I mean bad calls happen, but for the refs and officials to not take any accountability and to have such double standards is just inexcusable. OKC is a great defensive team, let them be defended like they defend and that's it.
And call fouls for crying out loud. Ain't no way players like Giannis, Steph, Ant and (to some extent) Jokiç that don't flop are hacked and mangled all the time and SGA and Luka get whiffed and rewarded.
A lot of the hate is because they are so zesty
Its not even just the thunder its NBA rules and officiating as a whole. The gather step shenanigans, the super obvious carries and travels, foul baiting that has gone from trying to draw contact to going out of your way to be the person who initiates it, the lack of a flowing offense. I still love the highlights and freedom but its gone too far. It all really ruins the beauty of basketball imo but Im not allowed to have that opinion because it makes me an oldhead at 22. Then people say "dont watch then" or "you don't actually like the NBA". What sense does that make? I WANT to watch basketball and I DO like the NBA but that doesn't mean you can't improve it significantly. There still are great games and moments of pure clean basketball and it can easily be changed because we still see it time to time.
Offense feels so cheap in this league that I don't even get excited of a 40 point game anymore.
2005-2006 to 2014-2015 had on average 18 20.0+ ppg scorers a year.
2015-16 to 2024-25 saw an average of 30 per season.
It’s the classic case of “he’s a good defender” bias. Players with a reputation of being a good defender gets the benefit of the doubt when defending and OKC has a ton of players with that rep. Let Duncan Robinson play aggressive defense like Lu Dort. He would foul out in 3 minutes even if he was on OKC.
cant blame them because thats observation is so true… dort, caruso, wallace and other okc players are allowed by refs to go hard on defense while the opponents cant even touch SGA.
It's all going exactly as planned. OKC is the villain built buy the NBA…..They win a ship with refs backing them and with Silver's stamp of approval so that they can play the villain role which in turn then allows a big market team to become the proverbial 'Hero'. Don't be suprised if the Warriors, Lakers, Denver or Houston end up knocking them off in the WCF
Pretty legit and honest dialogue. I liked it.
Thunder is a killer team and they play to their own advantage. Refs are frustrating. The rules of the NBA have been interpreted loosely to allow offense and make it harder to defend though, which takes away a lot of the contention that makes basketball a great product to watch.
As a wolves fan, love my team but we could (and should) take some pages out of that thunder book. Don't be afraid to get physical if the refs allow it! Set that tone and take advantage
Their defence is not only good because of the physicality, if it was the case then most teams could do the same. And if you watch carefully you see that they don't constantly take risks for steals. They have an incredible help and recover defence, they were getting used to these help patterns and playing amazing defence even before the arrival of the Holmgren. In general they got steals because of the traps they lay for the opponent guards, not because of the individual risks the defenders take and that's why their foul numbers are middle of the pack.
I seriously think Shai is affected by MN fans booing him and flops less in Target Center.
the reason why we hate okc since referees always help okc.Last year playoff we can see referees' decisions are very poor.Antman,Gobert,Randle,Mathurin,Durant complaint referees.Chris Finch also complaints referees.
so we hate referees always black whistle
It's the double-standards and hypocrisy that's annoying: Caruso got visibly mad over a very soft foul call that he didn't get against the Spurs in the Cup semis in the last minute of play – while he was getting away with (at least) 5 uncalled fouls in the last 3 minutes of that same game, 2 on Wemby and 3 on Castle ! Castle, who notoriously drives to the basket non-stop, only shot 2 free throws in that game – and those came from an obvious take-foul to stop the clock by OKC. Castle got hacked all game and didn't get a single foul call !
NBA REFS ARE HOT TRASH!!! DIFFERENT TEAMS DIFFERENT CALLS!
The free throw numbers are not important in this conversation. Anyone saying that it is is just plain dumb. 1 uncalled defensive foul is 4point swing, sometimes even 6. Do it 5 times a game you're down 20. Only need to shoot 5 more free throws.
Its seems like whenever a team gets a reputation for being a good defense (or especially a "gritty" defense) they are just allowed to get away with so much more. Coming from a Knicks fan feel like we benefited from this 2 years ago.
Caruso guarding Jokic was hilarious, just mauling him with no call
Very aggressive defensive teams usually aren’t league leaders in fouls the 04 pistons were 26th in fouls and the bad boy pistons in the years they won were 15th and 10th.
The problem is every other team gets called for far less physicality than what OKC is allowed. You don't have to be an expert or analyze advanced stats to see that. And SGA being the blatant grifter that he is and getting all the calls only makes it worse. Should've lost to the Nuggets in 5 last year.
I want to love OKC. It’s a Cinderella story on paper. There’s just too many examples of them getting away with murder while complaining if they get the same treatment from the refs. IHart yelling “that shit was a foul!” In the tunnel after the Spurs cup game was the most ironic and spoiled reaction he could’ve possibly had lmao
Every flop should be a tech
It’s just the dichotomy of it. On one end, you have one of the most notorious grifters in the NBA (wether you like him or not isn’t relevant here, SGA is among the most blatant FT grifters in the NBA), and then you have one of the most aggressive defenses in the league who most definitely get away with the most no calls in the league today.
It makes sense, SGA is a superstar with a superstar whistle, and he sells HARD on every time he even thinks he’ll get contact, and the OKC have the best defensive personal in the league, therefore nobody on their team looks out of place when playing defense, because if everyone on their team is getting away with these smaller infractions, they won’t get called as frequently as a different team with only 1-2 guys who do that aggressive defense (think Marcus Smart and Vando on the Lakers).
They’ve essentially mastered conditioning the refs to call the game the way they want to. That being said, while I think the Thunder are the greatest benefactor of the officiating, they are in no way the only ones this applies to. The entire league needs to have a chat with the officials, get them on the same page, and make these games consistent. Every night these plays are getting called differently, and it’s not just a slight difference, it’s massively different. It should never be THIS consequential to a teams success that they adjust to what the refs decide to do on a night to night basis.
Stop handing out techs to guys for barely looking your way, stop spinning the roulette wheel on what’s going to get called on a night to night basis, and stop doubling down on clearly wrong calls when asked to review.
Listen, I’m sure this is the common take the main problem is the dissonance which you mention in the video. It’s really shitty to watch Dort do what he does into sga getting a ticky tack foul on the other end.
If okc games are properly called they should be around 3+ hours long, game will get stopped a lot, caruso will foul out in 15 minutes, etc. NBA is entertainment business and this is exactly why the refs are helping the okc, because a properly officiated okc game will be extremely boring to watch, but they should realize their double standard is making the game even more unwatchable.
I love and appreciate OKC hard physical of defense I grow up on that style with my 04 Pistons, but I don't like the opposing team can't play that style back on OKC especially Shai. Like You can't even touch him & Shai don't get foul calls as what people thinks, but his foul bait kills moment of the game when teams be on a run its irritating to watch.
Refs in the NBA have always been terrible and there's been enough evidence to make them suspect.
The worst part about the thunder is they foul all the time and don't get called but on the other side the whistle is immediate.
And that SGA full extension push off is infuriating.
Why would anyone be mad at the thunder though? This seems to be a reffing issue or even an every other team issue. If the refs are gonna let more stuff go then play aggressive! People are always gonna complain. I remember before the great okc takeover the big thing was “teams aren’t playing aggressive enough” and “it’s boring just watching shooting and no defense”. Now we have a team playing uber aggressive they’re upset again. People don’t realize they are actually just mad their teams for getting stripped and scored on and not even trying to do it back.
All I hear is conspiracy theories and toddlers crying.