Who Should Start Next To Cooper Flagg For Mavericks Next Season? | DLLS Mavs Podcast

Who Should Start Next To Cooper Flagg For Mavericks Next Season? | DLLS Mavs Podcast

We think we know who four of the starters are, but who should get that fifth starting spot? We answer that question and more on today’s DLS Mavs podcast. [Music] [Music] [Music] Hello. Hello and welcome to today’s DLLS Mavs podcast. Folks, it is Friday. The weekend is almost here, but don’t lose concentration now. Don’t lose focus. The finish line is in sight, but you got to get there safe and sound before you can enjoy your weekend. My name are booking. Don’t do that. I mean, on any day of the week, but my name is Bobby Carella. That guy with Sage at Wisdom and Advice is Tim Ko. And before we introduce our special guest for today’s show, which you’ve already seen if you’re watching on YouTube, uh we launch a die hard sale. Dallas Cowboys training camp is underway out in Oxnard. Clarence Hill is out there probably up to no good, but also bringing you a bunch of scoops and exclusives with Dak Prescott, walk-off interviews with Jerry Jones, and much more. To get all of that coverage and more, you can take advantage of this deal. It’s $36 for a year. That’s $3 a month. What are you waiting for? Scan that QR code, hit the link in the description, and become a diehard today. You also get a free shirt when you sign up. that guy on the end down there. Now, I don’t want to put you under the put you under the gun like two seconds into the show, Christian Clark from The Athletic, but this guy took over the Mavs beat about two months before everything happened. Uh, so thank him for everything. He is the great Christian Clark. Yeah, Tim Ko handed me a bomb. I just didn’t know it, you know. He’s like, I’m take over the Mazbe. It’ll be great. You know, I watched Luca play four times and then he got traded. Yeah, I I juryrigged the beat on the way out, you know. you know, planted mines all around it and uh let me tell you, they all blew up. It was a great scheme. This is the big reveal. You’ve been punked. Ashton Kutcher, come on out. Uh so on today’s show, we’re going to talk all about the Mavs off season in the first two segments and then a little later on the show, we are going to dive into the first few months on the beat for Christian. He came from the New Orleans Times Pikun, so he’s got a lot of experience in the NBA, but uh nothing quite like what we all went through uh in spring 2025. and then we’re just going to hang out. It’s going to be a real fun show. But let’s dive right into the hot topics. Okay, I think we all agree Anthony Davis, Cooper Flag, D’Angelo Russell until Kyrie Irving comes back and then either Derek Lively or Daniel Gaffford will be the Mavs four starters this season, but there’s that fifth spot and we’ve all kind of assumed it’s going to be PJ Washington, but hey, Klay Thompson still exists and that guy is really good. So Christian, in your opinion, as things stand now, who should get that fifth spot if those other four guys are going to be pencled in? Yeah, I I mean, I feel like it’s a real discussion. Um, you know, I know Nico, you know, went on the record on draft night. He said, look, we feel like PJ Washington and Cooper Flag, like those guys can coexist. You know, there was that story about, hey, PJ was at at Cooper Flag’s draft workout and, you know, he’s him and Nico are talking. They’re like, oh, that’s fine. We can play together. Like, we can make this work. You know, I I think look, they could do that. If it was up to me, I think I would probably go with Klay Thompson just because I think they’re going to need shooting. Like, if you look at the nine games Anthony Davis actually played in last year, I mean, they they were like last I mean, you look at the point by like four attempts. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, and it wasn’t only attempts, it was it was makes, too. Like, you know, they were making fewer threes in those nine games than like the Orlando Magic, who were, you know, by far like the worst outside shooting team in the NBA. Like I just I just have concerns about spacing, I guess. And to me, it’s like I just want I just want Clay out there, you know, just to have as as much space as possible for AD and everybody else. I do think that there is, you know, the Mavs are one of the few teams that often double from one pass away in the post. And that just that just drives me nuts. But even if you know, let’s say AD’s really got it going, he’s cooking in the post and teams are going to start double teaming him. you assume it’s going to be DLO one pass away because he’s going to be the guy that’s delivering the ball to AD down there. And so you’re not going to double off DLO because that’s one pass away. That’s dumb. And then if your guy on the weak side is Clay, then it’s really hard to double off of him too because he commands so much attention. So I I do think that does open up space. But Tim, that kind of, you know, PJ is still going to get a ton of minutes, but starting Klay over PJ kind of is a departure from this notion of defense and size and, you know, all physicality and all that stuff. Clay is more of a at this stage of his career, he’s more of a three-point shooter and maybe less of a like a hard-nose gritty defender that he was earlier in his career. Yeah. But every every single team is going to have offense defense trade-offs. It’s it’s pretty much like when it comes to lineup building, what coaches have to do is is figuring out how to juggle. When do I put the offense guy who, you know, doesn’t quite give as much defensively, when to go vice versa. Dallas, you know, to their credit, like their their MMO, what they want to do is have two-way guys, and they do have two-way guys, you know, at the three and the four and and to an extent at the five. Like, these are what these guys do. Uh if you what what the two-way guys don’t bring is shooting, you know, like like what all of these guys who are adept and skilled both sides of the ball. PJ Washington will take shots like he’s he is a player who knocks down jumpers, but he does not have gravity in that sense. Cooper flag is not going to have gravity as a shooter his first season. Uh, and then there’s, you know, AD and Lively Gaffford. And, you know, that’s going to be the same thing like like these Anthony Davis has been a sub 25 shooter, uh, 25% three-point shooter, I think, for about five years. Uh, Daniel Gaffford and and Derek Lively, even if Lively takes a few threes next season, you know, it’s those are not spacers. Those are not uh players that opponents are scared of and and are going to like really go guard. And so at some point you have to have the trade-off of okay Klay Thompson not a you know like a horrific defender or anything just just as slowed with age but you know you’ve got to at some point throw some bones to the offense if you want it to function correctly and Clay just has a lot of experience too and if you know he wants to start for sure. Yeah. And the idea of this season is that you’re trying to compete and hold things down until Kyrie comes back and then you know really kick it into high gear. But also like the second most or arguably even more important than trying to win right now is developing Cooper. And so getting him out there with experienced guys that know how to play and that also know how to play off of really good players. And Clay has played off of some of the best players of all time throughout his career. Um you know that could be a big benefit to Cooper as well. Uh Christian, yesterday we were talking about uh Derek Lively, AD, and Kyrie all coming back from, you know, major injuries and recovery from pretty serious surgeries. In Lively’s case, you know, some foot stuff uh for bone spurs. Now, at this time, unless you know something that we don’t, which feel free to divulge that information on our airwaves, but at this time, his recovery timeline is sort of unclear, but I don’t really think that there’s any con like long-term like he’s going to be out till February kind of stuff. Hopefully, he’s ready by opening night, but let’s assume that he is. Again, unless you know differently. Um, are you starting Lively or are you starting Gaffford at the five alongside AD? All All I know is uh you know, Bones Spurs. That’s what’s been put out there. Um, you know, I I still think it’s Lively. I mean, like if you look at the on-off stuff from last year, like Lively was just a onoff monster. Um, I mean, Gford is excellent. Like what he did, you know, from January and February until he hurt his knee. Like he was a monster, too. But I still think it’s lively for me. Like Lively’s more mobile defensively. Um, you know, gives you the same stuff like over the top. Um, like some of the stuff Lively was doing as a passer last year, I thought really popped to me. like he had a he had a game where it was like seven or eight assists where he was just making all these plays off the short roll. Like when he came back at the end of the year, he had some plays to AD that’s like, “Oh my god, like how is this guy doing this at 7 foot one?” Like I still want to see that, you know? I mean, I think he definitely has to prove like he can make it through a full season. You guys have talked a lot about just like I I’m I love his potential. I love him as a player, but you know, he’s got to be available. And I think, you know, I I want I want him in the starting lineup, but like he’s he’s got to prove that, too. Yeah. He’s the better player. It’s I mean at some point you know if he if he’s on the court if he if he’s able to be healthy like I just think he’s the better player. So they’ve demonstrated you know going back to the 23 24 season they’ve demonstrated that really regardless of who starts but especially when Lively did those guys were playing like four or five minute stints. Uh Gafford ultimately supplanted him and became the starter throughout that playoff run and sometimes played even shorter than that but both of those guys were playing between like 22 to 26 minutes a game during the regular season. Do you think Tim that that’s that’s the way to do it to try and preserve Lively or do you think that we could see that shift at all? I mean that is kind of the question. We thought last season that it might end up being more of like a 34 you know 14 maybe not quite that but at least like 30 you know 20 like 32 oh my god I can’t 3216 you know like that type of split 308 those type of splits for them. Uh but but because Lively was just not consistently available like yeah I do think that you go in and you limit his role a little bit just just because of that and that’s that’s kind of how it played out. So one other way they can do that Christian is by playing neither of those guys. Now I think we all think by now they are going to start two bigs. They’re going to start AD at the four. But pretty much every day in our chat there’s fans saying 80 should play the five. AD should play the five. You go on Twitter it’s Mavs fans everywhere saying that as well. We say that a lot. Um, you know, we all kind of understand that that’s not going to be the case full-time, but how much five do you foresee him playing? Do you think that’s something that Jake is gonna roll with? Well, this is this is such a funny question because people in New Orleans like talk endlessly about Anthony Davis at the four versus Anthony Davis at the five. Like Anthony Davis throughout his entire career has been like, “Look, my position is the four, not the five.” You know? I mean, New Orleans brought in guys to to play the five next to him. And you know like the players they brought in like Omar Ashik like you know not great players and they’re they were just like devoting resources to these guys to play the five who weren’t that good and that was like a source of frustration there like ah this guy you know AD is just better at the five you know we never really got to see what kind of carry over to Zion too right like New Orleans is still trying to figure all that out I think. Yeah. Yeah. Um but I mean look AD we know he played I think 60% of his minutes at the floor in the regular season in 1920 when the Lakers won the championship. This this feels in a lot of ways like, you know, the 1920 Lakers redux here this year. I mean, there’s no LeBron. Not yet, at least, Bobby. Um um but it’s only July, folks. He’s going to I think he’s going to play a lot of four. I think it’s going to be majority four in the regular season, but I wouldn’t be surprised if you look at the end of the regular season. It’s like, oh wow, like three of their best 10 lineups were 88 to five. Can I go back to fifth starter real quick? Yeah. So, I think the conversation is PJ or Clay because the only way that you can make a case to PJ Washington, who has been the starter this entire time, like ever since he got to Dallas, the only way that you can make a case for him to come off the bench is to say, “Well, Klay Thompson, future Hall of Famer and a guy with a very unique skill set is going to start in front of you.” I think that’s the only way that you can make that case in a vacuum. If you just ignored that, is there any other cases that you can make for any other players on the roster? Because I think you can make the argument there’s a case sort of for Nagi just as another dribble drive person which kind of gives you that inverted spacing. I think uh if Max Christie is just like lighting it up behind the arc, you can make an argument for him as a point of attack defender like another two-way guy in the roster. Uh, you can make a case for if Caleb Barton all of a sudden like rediscovers his jump shot uh like to the best of what he had been in Miami and all of a sudden he’s a point of attack defender and he’s like a knockdown reliable shooter. I think there’s a case to be made there. Uh, I’m going to sound insane for saying this. I literally think there could be a case for Brandon Williams just for the offense to have another like like we’ve seen alongside DLO or alongside DLO. Okay. like like I I I I think it’s I think it’s very slim uh hard to make case just because you don’t want the defense of Brandon Williams and D’Angelo Russell in the back court. But if you’re going to like size up and have all these defenders in the back court and and you like your offense just is not able to penetrate, is not able to get drives consistently enough, putting your other best driver on the court next to DLo, I think we’re going to see that back court at times. Uh I don’t think there’s a case not to start Cooper. I don’t think there’s any case based off who he is that he’s gonna be the sixman. But I that’s I guess that’s the other argument. It doesn’t seem to be their plan, right? Yeah. It’s not their plan. I don’t think it should be like he’s Cooper Flag. Like like I don’t think there’s any reasonable case that you know even even like even in a vacuum I don’t think I could make that argument because it means too much to the team’s future and his status as a player and all this stuff. But I I do think that it it’s Clay or PJ. It’s going to be Clay or PJ. Like that’s the that’s the debate. But I think if if you you know if if if you put us you if it was 2K you can make an argument for a few more players that just isn’t realistic based off the expectations these players have for their roles on this team. Yeah. If there’s no like ego or money involved, right? Right. Which there is slash are. I mean PJ going into the last year of his deal. Granted there’s still the possibility of extension talks to take place and get hammered out and everything. Stein keeps alluding to that, but uh it hasn’t happened yet. And if you’re going into the final year of your contract and you get demoted to a bench role, I don’t know. So, we’ll see what happens. But, uh, is there any of those players that that, you know, you would consider, you know, like a a a dark horse case for maybe you should be the fifth starter? Yeah. I mean, if you’re like any of those, like if you’re throwing out money and ego, like I think what you’re saying totally makes sense. Like I when I look at, you know, even the starting lineup with Clay, I look at that, I’m like, well, I mean, that helps with the shooting, but there’s still not guys who are generating rim pressure, you know, like I look at that, I’m like, does that make the offense a little bit sludgy, you know, and like not putting Naji Marshall in there, you know, hypothetically, like that helps with that. Like that’s one thing he does do. He slashes, you know, righty righty floater God. Um, but, you know, I I think that helps. It’s just like, you know, if we’re looking at this practically, like you’re probably not starting Naji Marshall, who I love as a player over at Clay Thompson and PJ Washington. We do love Naji here, and we’re still I’m still picking up the pieces after nickname gate. Um, but we will we will rebuild and come back even stronger next year. Naji hype, don’t go anywhere. You don’t get to pick your nicknames. I exactly. All right. I don’t need you to be okay with it. All right. The knife, but if you are mad, then again, you’re invited to come on the show. Uh we have guests on all the time, you know, that you you know some of them, right? Y’all are y’all tight? Uh we we have a good relationship going back to New Orleans. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. All right. So, bring Naji on the show and give us five minutes. We’ll hammer it out in one segment. Naji Naji’s first year in the NBA. He was an undrafted um you know, two-way guy. It was COVID year in Stan Van Gunny, which was just a wild time. Like nobody in the arena like that stay was crazy for a lot of different reasons. So yeah, uh I don’t know. I felt like we went through something together. Go way back. All right, Naji, open invite, buddy. Anytime. Anytime. All right. Coming up next, we’re going to answer some of the more like philosophical overarching questions about the Mavs roster and some of Christian’s confidence level heading into next season. Don’t go anywhere. It’s the DLS Mavs podcast. But first, we just went to Las Vegas and it was a blast. If you want to go Las Vegas, you have the opportunity to do so. Uh thanks to our fans at True Fan Travel. It’s going to be the ultimate fan experience. 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Welcome back to the DLS Mavs podcast. Bobby Carella, Tim Ko, Christian Clark of the Athletic. Uh, so we talked about some starting stuff in the last segment. Let’s Dante XM has a case too. Forgot to name him. That is honestly that’s a good shout that I think that’s actually the best dark horse. Yeah, I think Max Christie is another one too. Max Christie is another one because that dude is young, has some team control, and has a lot of the skills that they need. same number of drives last se like pretty much the same number of drives as Klay Thompson so gives doesn’t quite give but point of attack defense yeah you know like there’s there’s value there and I think that’s why Dante has a case and he also drives as a secondary guy but just wanted you know we we’ve been talking about rim pressure and obviously ball handling quite a bit on this show uh Christian you mentioned it in the first segment the Mavs this summer you know publicly kind of stated like look they they think that with D’Angelo Russell and Brandon Williams and then you know pepper in a little bit of Nagi and a little bit of Cooper and you know maybe a little PJ. Um they can sort of by team effort hold down the fort until Kyrie comes back which hopefully will be pretty soon but it could extend you know well into the season if not beyond. And so uh you know what are your thoughts on that versus the team’s you know pretty big bet on size and interior presence at both ends of the floor. Yeah. I mean that that’s kind of what I picked up too. They’re like, “Look, collectively, we have enough ball handling here to make this work. You know, survive without Kyrie.” I mean, I think they they know there’s no replacing Kyrie. And that’s on any NBA team. It’s like you lose all-star guy who’s making, you know, close to max money. There’s no there’s no replacing him. Um, but look, I’m I think this team could be good as long as Anthony Davis is available. Um, you know, I think that’s a huge question and like the biggest question with this team. How much is AD going to play this year? I don’t love here in the offseason like oh yeah he’s recovering from like a detached retina surgery. Um and then you know the other thing to me it’s like is the offense going to look sludgy? Like that’s that’s a concern I have. You know defensively I don’t think they’re the Thunder. I think they have a chance to be very very good. They don’t have like the caliber of perimeter defender. But I think defensively they’re going to be fine. Offensively, you know what is this going to look like? Can can you know they patchwork it together? I just I I just worry there are nights like this just doesn’t look pretty. You know, it’s they’re grinding out stuff. I like sludgy. Sludgy is a good adjective. Tim and I, you know, we we watch other teams and obviously Stein does too and Kevin does too. But I mean, we talk about the Mavs all the time. Um, you know, you covered the Pelicans, you’ve covered the Nuggets, so you’ve you’ve worked around the league a little bit and you still, you know, talk I’m sure your network extends well beyond just those cities. But um you know and I’m not doing this to try and like oh serve up some truth bombs to Mavs fans but like you know I I believe that interior defense is very valuable and rim protection is very valuable but I believe perimeter defense is just as more just as valuable if not more. Um so could you explain based on you know the the success we saw the Thunder have and you know other teams that you’ve covered and that you watch around the league why is perimeter defense really important? I know even the best guys get beat and you have help behind you. So that’s why rim protection matters so much. But why is perimeter defense so valuable? Yeah. I mean like if if you’re getting beat off the dribble consistently, you know, that’s just opening up like kick out threes. You know, every NBA coach is like we want to we want to generate paint threes, you know, we want to drive and get a foot into the paint and kick it out and get threes because those are just some of the best shots you can have. And also shooting at the rim, you know, some of the best shots you can have. I mean, if you can’t if you can’t guard on the perimeter and prevent guys from going by you, then you’re just opening yourself up to like, you know, the worst kinds of shots. I mean, I think anybody who watched the Thunder this year like understands the value of great perimeter defense, right? That was like that was like one of the best perimeter defensive teams I’ve ever seen with, you know, Caruso and Dor and Kase Wallace. And that team had, you know, two big guys who can block shots behind them, too, with with Chad and Isaiah Harden. Like, they kind of had they kind of had everything. Um, you know, like if if let’s just say they’re throwing out the starting lineup with Clay, like who’s who from the opening tip is guarding Shay Gila Alexander for example or Luca Don and is it Cooper Flag? Like who do you who do you guys think is drawing that assignment? I so I think it is probably Cooper Flag and in in a lot of instances and so I want to bring up the other team that was in the finals, Indiana. And so the concern is if you have weak perimeter defense is that you’re just going to allow there are going to be possessions where you allow three or four drives per possession. Uh and it’s not that the rim protection isn’t good. It’s that if you have to rotate and scramble that many times at some point you’re going to make a mistake because defenses make like teams score 100 points every game. You know most of those are because there’s a defensive mistake. Every possession is about you know lasting as long as you can before making a mistake. And what Indiana did brilliantly, of course, like we all saw it is is they pressured full court. Uh, and I know Sam Vini is talking about his big takeaway from summer league is he saw a lot of teams pressuring full court. He thinks that’s going to be like a trend that goes into next year that more teams are going to kind of look at that and shorten the possessions, you know, like like make sure that every half court action is starting at like 15 or 16 on the shot clock, you know, maybe even like 13 14 if if you can like really harass the ball handler. And if you’re Dallas, like Cooper is kind of the only guy who is going to be able to do that. Well, if you start with Clay, that’s not going to be Klay’s role. That’s not going to be D’Angelo Russell’s role. uh you can ask Cooper in some instances to okay go pick up Shay full court uh because we have guys behind you. It’s also a it’s going to be a slow like a slow starting lineup. So to the to the extent that the offense may look sludgy, you’re not going to have a lot of offensive rebounding because you got to make sure you get your bigs back. Uh if it’s lively, he runs, you know, he he gets, you know, one side to the other pretty well. AD’s a little bit slower. Clay’s a little bit slower. I mean, Clay’s great going, you know, running to the three-point line on an offensive break and finding those, you know, like pull up jumpers in transition, that type of stuff, but you do just kind of have a slow lineup. D’Angelo Russell is not known whatsoever for fullcourt pressure. So, you’re kind of in a situation where you don’t have the perimeter defenders to, you know, styy every first and second action. Like, you’re going to give up some penetration there. And you don’t really have the guys except for Cooper. And this is why I kind of think Cooper may be asked at times to go pick up the lead ball handler at 94 ft. See if you can bother him. See if he can kind of harass him in in the back court. A lot of energy expension expension expendability expending if you do that. But I do kind of like him in that role where he’s the guy who’s the lead guy, point of attack because I think his best defensive role is kind of as that like roam around four. But you’ve got Anthony Davis starting who also is going the reason he wants to play the four is he wants to go guard the the opponent’s worst player so that he can roam and and be a weak side shot blocker, somebody who floats into the rim when he sees danger. And so I if you know if Davis is playing, flag isn’t going to have that role. So where can you use a 18-year-old’s energy even if you know guarding quick guards is not his best skill set. And I don’t think it is. I think his best skill set is being an offball defender. But I could see that being something Dallas tries. put him on the ball, chase the guy 94 ft, just see if you can slow down the offense so that you don’t have to worry about, you know, multiple multiple actions in a single possession. I don’t disagree with that, but I would also say be careful about drawing any conclusions from summer league. Um, totally. And that Yeah. Yeah. It’s a place where teams experiment. Yeah. But it’s also like no one in summer league is good at dribbling, so let’s just press them and they’ll turn it over 100%. You know, um, that’s what every team did with flag. Yeah. Yeah. And it sometimes it worked and a lot of times it didn’t and we move on. All right. The ceiling is the roof with him. Uh Christian, we’ve talked the last couple days and really the last few months like the Mavs just have so many dudes, you know, and that’s a good thing because it’s good to have a lot of good players, but it could be a bad thing because if everyone is healthy, then guys are going to be catching D&Ps and 15minute nights that think they’re better than that and probably are better than that and deserve more. Uh, and so, you know, whether or not this is related to LeBron is up to you. The ball is in your court, pal. But, you know, Tim has, we we’ve both said, not that we believe it’s going to happen, but that we think that there should be at some point some level of consolidation, two for one, three for two, four for three, whatever it is. Um, and they need to clear a roster spot to sign Dante anyway. It could be a simple matter of just buy someone out or stretch wave, whatever. Uh, but in your estimation, is that something that you could realistically see happening or do you think that that’s just kind of hope casting? Yeah, I mean, as you just pointed out, like we know there’s going to be a small move. I mean, Dante Exom is not officially signed yet. They’ve got 16 guys on standard contracts if you count for him. So, we know they got to do something small, you know, whether that is a salary dump or, you know, just waving a non-G guaranteed contract or something like that. I I personally don’t think there’s going to be a big move coming before the start of the season. like the vibes I’m picking up are we’re going to go into the season with what we have. I mean, I could be wrong, but that’s just kind of, you know, what I’ve picked up, but like it seems like to me they’re content to go into the season and kind of see what they have. And if they have to adjust on the fly, then they’ll do that. Um, you know, I personally think like this roster when I look at it, when everyone’s healthy, I’m like, okay, this isn’t like this doesn’t fit together seamlessly. But I also, you know, knowing from New Orleans, nothing ever goes according to plan, too. So, it’s like guys are gonna miss time. Like, you know, we’re talking about like, well, what’s the starting lineup when everyone’s healthy? Like, well, we don’t even know, you know, when will everyone be healthy? Yeah. I mean, so I mean, nothing nothing goes, you know, exactly according to plan. So, like, we could be like, well, thank god they have all this death, too. I I think the the vibe started with the Gaffford extension, and I think we all instantly noticed how interesting. immediately tradable. That sure is a very specific extension in dollar amount that they doled out and then I assume is the case for you, you know, and you reach out to the Mavs, they’re like, “No, we’re keeping them. What are you talking about?” Like, yeah, just it just happened, you know. Yeah, it happened to be 15%, but like we’re keep And then those vibes just continued. Like there was never any crack in that public uh projection or I guess private projection when we reached out to people. I assume it was the same for you and and and like like ever since that moment I have never got any sense that anything big was happening this summer even though going into it up until that gaffer extension just me looking at the roster I assumed they were going to do something. Yeah. Yeah, I mean when I asked about the Gaffford extension, I was like, “So, he’s immediately tradable?” And then I followed up a couple times with that like, “Yes.” But but that was always followed by no, we’re keeping him. And I like it was said so strongly to me that I was like, “Okay, I believe it.” And I mean, you know, I think people like I talked to around the league are like, “That’s a really good number for Daniel Gaffford.” You know, like people are like, “That’s a that’s a really good like good job on the mass. It’s a good piece of business.” Coming up next, we are going to uh take a little trip back in time machine to the start of the year. whenever Christian took over and then uh some of the some of the speed bumps we encountered along the way here at the DLS Mavs podcast. But first, I live nearby the arena and the last couple nights there have been some concerts going on. whole lot of people going into American Airlines Center that might never have been there before for a Mavs game or for a Stars game or you might have been there for a Mavs game, but did you know the layout is a lot different in that building whenever there’s a concert in town as opposed to a basketball game? Sidelines are different. There’s floor seating. Everything is a little unusual. Wouldn’t it be nice to know exactly what your POV is going to be from that seat? It would be Well, Tim, game time exists for a reason. You can see a panoramic view from your seat in your section before you fork over the cash. So, you know exactly what you’re getting. And also with their all-in pricing, you know exactly what you’re going to pay upfront as opposed to being surprised with service charges right at the very end that uh double or even triple the price of that ticket to the show you want to see. So, take the guesswork out of buying tickets with Game Time. Download the Game Time app, create an account, use code DLLS for $20 off your first purchase. Terms again, terms apply. Again, create uh an account redeem code DLS for $20 off. Download the Game Time app today. Last minute tickets, lowest price guaranteed. Game time. Just like your favorite team needs a home code advantage, your home needs a home floor advantage. And Empire Today is the place to help you with that. Empire Today has flooring experts, dedicated flooring professionals. They focus on flooring every single day of their lives. They’re not like the big box score. The big box stores is what I was trying to what I almost said there. trying to say big box stores where you go to the flooring section and how do you know the person that you’re talking to was even working in flooring yesterday. With Empire today, you know, you absolutely know every time that they live and breathe flooring that they’re going to be with you every step of the way. It’s a whole different ballgame. So, schedule a free inhome estimate today because some things are just better at home. DLS listeners can receive a $350 discount when using promo code DLS. Yes, you heard that right. A $350 discount with code DLS. Restrictions apply. visit empire/dls for full details. Welcome back to the DLLS Mavs podcast. Gentlemen, let’s go back to February 2025 or maybe slightly before Bobby Carella, Tim Ko, joined by Christian Clark of The Athletic. This was Christian’s first year on the Mavs beat. spent a lot of years in the NBA before this, but have probably never encountered anything quite like what happened in February uh whenever the Mavericks shocked the world by trading Luca Donic to the Lakers. Now, we’re not going to relitigate the trade and all of that stuff, but unless you want to, unless you want to, but you know, as someone that was covering it and you know, Tim, you wrote a lot of stories about what went into that decision and the fallout and all that stuff. But Christian, you guys at the Athletic, both you and and you know, the team of writers there, uh, did a lot of reporting around them, too. What was it like for you to take over the beat at that moment in time and to go through everything that uh, happened and and what are some of the, you know, some of the the things that really stand out in your memory and and to take it out like expecting to be a Luca beatriter? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Of course. You know, like you anytime you like, you know, take one of these jobs, you’re like, well, is there is there going to be interest? And it’s like, well, they have Luca, so yeah, there’s there’s definitely going to be interest. I mean, you know, my first day was December 9th. I watched them play four times in a in a Mavericks uniform before he got moved. Um, so how was it? It was pretty good. You know, one of the things I was bringing up a lot of the season, they were like, you know, 19-1 going into Christmas. You know, I think they were uh, you know, top 11 in offense and defense. you know, like on paper you’re like, “Okay, this this, you know, I I like Oklahoma City come out of the West, but they could maybe be a contender.” You know, that’s how I was feeling going into Christmas. I was like, “They’re good.” You know, they have the makings of maybe a contender. Like, did you take the job with visions like maybe I’ll end up in Slovenia. Maybe, you know, like maybe maybe there’s a flight to Ljubljana tour. No, you you did the Ljubljana flight and and story uh which was a good one. But no, I mean like the thing I’ll probably remember most is just that moment of terror. Like um I was on the the road trip with the team, you know, when Luca was traded. I was in a hotel room in Cleveland and you know the trade deadline was a couple days away and I’d follow the post that day like here’s some backup centers, here’s some threes and fours like maybe they could look at you know solid thousand words, pretty boring list and then I was going to bed and you know just get woken up by barrage of calls and texts you know a little after midnight on Eastern time like oh my god this is real. I mean, I I literally I literally thought I was having a nightmare. Like, it took me a second to to realize like, this is real, you know? I was one of the many people was like, “This is real.” You know? Yeah. Did you uh did that piece ever run? Which the the the the trade uh target deadline primer? You filed it that night. It never saw the light of day. It was It was going to go live the next morning. Yeah. That never went live. And then sometimes Sometimes that’s how it plays out. What? So, you were at the uh the Cleveland press conference. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I got to go to that. What like what was it like being there in person? You know, it starts off with a joke that every YouTube video you can find of it is now clipped like that that’s not there any longer. And like what were the vibes as you recall them in that room? Yeah, I mean I think um Jason Kidd looked very nervous. That’s something I’ll, you know, kind of remember. I think WFAA did like a they had a body language expert do like a 20minute video of like how uncomfortable Jason get looked and I watched that entire 20-minute video. I like body language analysis. I watched a a body language doctor break that down. Um look I think that was just like the thing I’ll remember is that was not handled well from a public relations perspective like leading with the joke. Um you know like gallows humor like I think they’ll look at that in like public relations courses and be like this is not how you handle a crisis. Like my note if I was a PR professional for for the people who had to explain that one is like you need to go in there and like act like this is a funeral because this is a funeral for your fans you know like you might have had reasons to trade Luca and like you know I think their thought process was all right we got to give this guy like hundreds of millions of dollars this summer devote 35% of the salary cap we don’t like believe the conditioning stuff is going to improve we feel like the injury stuff is going to get worse like I don’t necessarily agree with all that but I can see how they were in that head space, but you know, the way it was explained, I thought that was like just not handled well at all. Yeah, it’s just very clear they did not understand the gravity, which is something they’ve admitted, is something that we’ve reported is something that is just very obvious. But they, you know, in that moment, it took uh probably days until they understood collectively as an organization, the leading people, the people making those decisions to really understand the gravity of how a fan base was going to react to it, how you know the sporting universe was going to react to it. And and it just it was very clear from that moment that that was never understood. I think like one of the things that that I really noticed from the Luca trade is like and I think why Maz fans had such a hard time with it among many reasons is like Maz fans went from having like the most customer centric owner face Mark Cuban to like people leading the team who I just don’t really think they cared about what the customer thought you know I mean they’re like we think this is the right thing and like we don’t care and it’s like I you know you have to make hard decisions sometimes when you’re in leadership and like they had their reasons for doing that you know I don’t agree with all of them, but like they just I just don’t think there’s any like regard for like this is what our our customer our fan base thinks, you know? It’s like you at least have to be cognizant of that and like understand their perspective and I don’t think they did or tried to. It was just such a shift obviously. You know, it was such a shift going from Cuban to Deont and from Donnie to Nico and you know all this stuff. Um, Christian going back like more than 10 years or I guess about 10 years ago. You and I wrote a little blog together called Mavs Outsider Report way back in the day. And so, um, you know, I don’t know if you would ever consider yourself to have been a Mavs fan or were you? Oh, totally. Yeah. Great. My senior year of high school, they won the championship. Like great great title. Oh, nice. Okay. Yeah. So then, you know, you grow up watching Durk and so like many other Mavs fans, like we kind of get this sort of maybe just a premonition or just a a dream that Luca will be the next Dirk that we got 21 more years coming and all that stuff. And like that is just not apparent to people that weren’t here for the Dirk stuff and none of these guys were I mean JK was in a different capacity, but Nico and that’s why he looks so nervous. Yeah. As the as the body language expert. Uh yeah. Yeah. But like that sort of stuff is just I don’t It’s just not apparent, you know, and maybe not even the case for Mavs fans that came along later, you know, that weren’t here for Durk. Like, it was just such a different like this a very unique town to trade a star from. Uh, yeah. I mean, do you think they knew what the inscription was on Durk statue? Like, that’s a genuine question. Probably not. Probably not. Yeah, it feels like it, you know, it feels like a piece of information you should know. Like, you should you should know like basic details about the history of the team. And that doesn’t mean, you know, that has to be your guiding light or your north star, you know, like Nico still has to has to do what he thinks is right. And, you know, I mean, but I just don’t feel like there was even like an understanding of basic history of the team. Yeah. Yeah, I mean it’s very clear the reaction was different following the trade, the the the handling of it, the PR, the the way that they talked about it, the way that they went into, you know, like like if if you grasped what Dirk meant and then realized that the fan base viewed through the through the Maverick’s own pushing of this, like the Mavericks were instrumental in branding Luca as the next. this was something they did constantly as a franchise as a messaging and and like as they should and yes that’s more you know a lot of way that’s the digital and the communications team you know that is the way it’s pushed but you know the people people in charge also talked about the comparisons between Durk and Luca and yeah that if if you you know if if the people making the decision had grasped that it would have been funeral vibes and and it would have been very different empathy empathy for your fan base, you know, even if you don’t, you’re like, “We had to make this decision. It was a very difficult decision.” There was not empathy for the fan base and like that was that was what needed to be communicated in in my mind like right after it happened. Yeah, absolutely. And now unlike, you know, I think strictly from a basketball perspective, we can talk about the the trade and, you know, whether it was good or bad and what lessons they applied to future trades or whatever, like evaluated as a business move. Um, this was sort of different. Obviously there are a lot more layers to it than just simp simplifying it to that extent but um you know since that trade they really have followed it like it is very clear that that is the vision you know like there have been moves made since then that only further solidify that like this is exactly what the Mavs want to do. Uh now that isn’t to say that you have to like commend them for the vision or anything if you disagree with it. Like I don’t necessarily agree with the the roster plan, but like they’re certainly they certainly believe in the plan that they’re going with, you know, uh it’s certainly a bold one, you know, and it it is kind of zigging while the rest of the league is zagging. Um but I mean there there is reason to believe that it could work. Obviously, so much of that hinges on Kyrie coming back soon and quickly and everything. Um but I mean, do you get that vibe, too? like it they they say that they’re all in to win a title and it really does feel like they’re all in because everyone’s contracts line up. Like it really does seem like this is it. This year and next year is it? Yeah. I mean Ky Kyrie and AD two more years on the contracts and then they’ve got player options that third year. I mean Nico per Nico Harrison Tim was in the meetings like I got three years left in my deal. You know I I think when you look at like you know a lot of the key players involved here it kind of lines up on a on a three-year window. Um, you know, I mean, the best players in this team are approaching their mid30s. I mean, the time is now. And, you know, look, I didn’t obviously I didn’t agree with the Luca trade. I I I think Donnie Nelson said when you have a great player, you just go with that guy as long as you can until he says it’s done. Like, I think I believe that, but like I still think this team would have been very good and they would be in that contender discussion if if Kyrie hadn’t gotten hurt. Like, I really do like this team a lot if if Kyrie doesn’t get hurt. Yeah, there’s team zigging, there’s team zagging, and then the Mavs are like zagging. I don’t know. It’s like some third third secret option. Uh you got the X- axis, the Y axis, and the Z-axis. Yeah, some something like that. I mean, you know, the the story I wrote about two bigs, we talked about it last week, I think. And you know, even even though there are a lot of teams committing to two centers, uh both teams that won the conferences last regular season were teams that started two centers, two big men. you know, players you look at and objectively, you know, Hartinstein and Chad Homegrren and and Evan Mobley and Jared Allen, those are all centers. Yes, they can play next to each other, but they are centers. But even even then, you know, when you know, as as I’ve as I’ve you know, did in that piece and I kind of tallied up all the three-point attempts and the drives, you know, like Dallas is last on that list in terms of how much offensive uniqueness or, you know, offensive modernity that these bigs have in terms of like this is the new NBA, this is skill ball. You know, these guys shoot threes and they, you know, you know, with a live dribble, they get to the rim 25 ft away. Dallas doesn’t really have that. you know, they’re they’re pivoting even further than a lot of these teams that are pivoting to two centers. They are pivoting almost to a a a older version of what the NBA was. And maybe they’re ahead of it, you know, maybe maybe and Anthony Davis is very unique. I don’t mean to say he isn’t. Derrick, he’s like a once in a generation, once in a lifetime kind of player. 100%. And and Dererick Lively is, you know, also a, you know, as we’ve discussed, a lot of his injury problems come from the fact that he has a very unique body and athleticism and and can do very unique or, you know, we we think that there’s probably a correlation between the fact that, you know, he is a, you know, he can he’s 7 foot2 and can guard point guards. Like there is a lot of uniqueness to that. uh you know, it’s not not to say there isn’t, but then you you know, especially on the offensive end, you just look at the raw stats and like these guys are not unique in the way that a lot of these two center combos, some of them teams are planning to use them a lot less. They’re just planning for the optionality of having two centers they can throw out there. That’s what Houston is doing. That’s what, you know, uh Memphis to some extent is doing. Uh because I I wouldn’t consider like Santi Alama to be a to be a center. You know, he’s a big but he’s not a center. Uh, so Zack Ed is going to be out there sometimes next to Jiren Jackson, but sometimes they’re going to go smaller. Sometimes it’s going to be Jiren Jackson alone as the five. And and what Dallas is doing is just fully committing to big ball all the time with a trio of centers that are just not the same type of modernity. Like this is the brand new era of basketball. It’s very interesting. I I think it’s I think it’s it’s noble in the sense that Nico Harrison believes this is the right way to play basketball or who believe this is his preferred way to play basketball and he believes it can win and they are committing to it. There are not a lot of teams committing quite like them to this exact approach. But Nico Harrison says no, I want to do it my way in every possible way. And in the sense that he just believes in his basketball ethics and believes in his worldview, I do respect that. It’s just I’m I’m still not convinced. I agree with the vision itself. Bold move on the floor and an even bolder one off the floor and we’ll continue talking about it probably for the rest of our lives. Coming up next, we are going to talk I don’t know maybe about just working in the league. Yeah, I got I got more I got more questions for for Christian. All right, cool. Fill up the chat with some of your own, too. We’ll get to those next on the DLS Maps podcast. But first, folks, like I said right off the top of the show, now is the best time to become a diehard. And you can do so by scanning that QR code. Oh, it’s right there. Wow. Okay. Right there. You can scan that QR code or you can click the link in the description below or you can go to alldls.com/intro and take advantage of our $36 diehard intro offer in honor of training camp starting out in Oxnard. We got Clarence out there in California, sunny and sometimes cloudy Southern California bringing you the latest Cowboys news. We got Tim Ko bringing you news on the Dallas Mavericks. We got Sam Nestler who’s right over there. Hi Sam. And Sean Shapiro who’s way up in Detroit. Hi Sean. Bringing you Stars coverage. And we got Jeff Wilson who is on vacation. I don’t know where Jeff Wilson is actually. I hope he’s enjoying his trip wherever he is. Bringing you Texas Rangers news on our website alldls.com. We also do a newsletter. It’s free to sign up for. Just go to that website, scroll all the way down, sign up. I’m doing it right now. And uh who knows who’s going to be doing it uh pretty soon. And then uh what are the other benefits, Tim? Well, when you sign up, you get a free shirt of your choice. We got more than 40 to choose from, including this sterling Dallas collection. Oh my god, look at all those shirts. I like one each of them more than the next one somehow. It’s just it’s an endless feedback loop of positivity and joy. You get to choose one of those or any other for free right when you sign up. And if you already redeemed one and you’re a diehard, well, you get a discount on all the other stuff. You also get to join the DLS Discord. Yesterday, we took a bunch of questions from the dieards. We do that quite a bit, and I’d like to do that even more often than we already do. And uh you get your physical die hard card, Tim Ko. I don’t have it on me. It’s just too heavy. Okay. Yeah, I I understand. I understand. Me, But I’ve been hating the gym to to try to get my fitness back to a level where I can actually like carry it around. Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah. Yeah. Well, you can uh the strong the strongest of you can carry it around with you as well. There’s so many reasons to become a diehard. Those are just a few. Take advantage of this deal now, folks. All right. Welcome back. It’s the DLS Mavs podcast segment number four on a Friday. The weekend is in sight. And God, it looks sunny and beautiful. Maybe a little sweaty and full of cold beer and better times. Uh responsibly, of course. Um, Tim and Christian, I guess this this last 12 15 minutes or so, hopefully 12 minutes, uh, or so, we can just have like a like a beat writer off or something. The writer part is pretty important. Pretty important there. Easy. I said beat writer off like a dumbling down on it. Like a beat writer like a Who’s the best beat writer? I said that. Y’all heard it. Okay. Yeah, you heard it. Cat heard it. Okay. [Laughter] Uh so uh yeah, whatever. Floor is yours. How much what a great host I am right there. What a great host. Hey, welcome back. All right, go. God, we need cover gray back so bad. Um how much did your perspective change on what you were trying to do on the beat after the Luca trade? because that was I remember that being just a very like and for us it was a little bit different because we were doing the show all like on the show we kind of turned into like a therapy like a daily therapy hour you know for for fans uh you know at the athletic obviously very you know I am very familiar with that role uh you know not quite that level of directness you know to the fans although certainly a good amount you know I I love the comment sections all that stuff but like like as How did your mindset change in terms of like, oh shoot, like what is my job now? Yeah, I mean I think I immediately was like, oh, this is a huge this is what the fan base is thinking and feeling story, you know, like that was that was apparent immediately, you know, there was a mock funeral and all that. Like we don’t even need to go down that road again. I mean like personally I feel like it was challenging for me because every year you’re like covering a team it just gets easier because you have more relationships you know more people you can talk to and get perspective from and it’s like it’s like a snowball rolling downhill you know like I feel like the job just gets easier every year you do it because you know a lot of it is like it’s information and you need you need relationships to get information like you know I was covering the Pelicans that was my sixth year when I left for this job it’s like man I just knew like people in and outside the organization it was like wasn’t easy, but like it was it was like year one is really hard, you know, and it’s like I’m the new guy and I’m asking you about this this crazy thing you just did. So, everybody in in the months following the Luca trade, the because of the PR backlash, because of how everything how bad everything went on the court, it was very hard to get anything done. Everything was very touchy. Like everybody was very on edge. like it it it everything had gone so badly in every possible way that even what would have been easy like hey can I get you know this player towards the end of the bench for 10 minutes well first off he was probably injured because the entire team was but but it was just it was I remember it being I I remember like it was years ago like like you know in the spring it was very difficult to do even the normal stuff because of this huge cloud and this huge like the enormous negative optics, you know, just just, you know, weighing everything down. Yeah. I mean, like that Luca’s return game, you know, like in the locker room afterwards, unfortunately, it was a story. It’s like you’re asking players like, “Right, did you did you hear what the fans were saying, you know, and all that?” It’s like sound was received well, but it’s like the the PJ fan drama interaction, you know, like PJ verse the, you know, like the the the common Joe was like that was a weird like even in situations where the team sucks and like borderline hopeless situation, like the worst Wolves years, the worst Kings years where it’s like there are people who’ve like lived and died without seeing their team go to the playoffs one time. There’s never really been anything like that. So, I was trying to think of historical comparisons and like is there is there anything like this and I think no. But like my the biggest what if that I could come up with is okay what after 2001 when Iverson got the 76ers to the finals they just traded him in 2002. You know, it’s like he just kind of dragged this this team. You know, Maverick’s roster is probably like a better roster than the the 76ers had around AI in like01 or whatever, but he just, you know, this team clearly overachieved. this guy just had an unbelievable run. There are maybe, you know, different they’re different, but like there are maybe some concerns about like is this guy doing everything he can to maximize his potential, but he’s objectively an amazing player and and a deep connection with the fan base. Like to me, that’s like the closest thing I come about come up with. It’s like what if 76ers had like traded Allen Iverson in 2002, you know? I like that. That makes that makes a lot of sense as a comparison. And you know, 76ers did not trade him. in fact, you know, like that’s that’s that’s the level of connection and you know, you know, relationship. That that is the thing though, right? Cuz like the Sixers never even came close to that right level. They still I mean they they still off course habits did lead to him, you know, having a very short peak. Yeah. And so it’s it Well, also Yeah. I mean, also his body was small and a lot of injuries and everything, but like Yeah. Yeah. Obviously not a not a perfect one to one, but like that’s the whole that is kind of the whole point in essence of fandom, right? Is that like even if you know you could make the case this is such such you know hindsight stuff like let’s say they did trade Allen Iverson they got back a ton of stuff and they ended up having a pretty good run after that whereas we know how that story finished and it didn’t go great necessarily. Um, like so objectively maybe that was the best time to trade him, but like that’s the whole point of sports is to it’s it’s supposed to be emotional. It’s supposed to be like you’re the fans are supposed to win sometimes, too. It it’d be like if the Mavs won the title in 2011 and then like broke up the finals team right after. That would never happen, Tim. That would never happen. Also, that’s not a comparison. It’s a bad comparison. But I mean like they they did that based on not emotion but they did that based on what’s best for business and it clearly didn’t work and like Durk’s final almost decade of his career was sort of a wash because of it. So so that that is a lot of the times I said I would not have done that trade because of the fan base because of their feelings about it because of what Luca meant to them. And that’s it’s exactly what you said. Nine times out of 10, 49 times out of 50 in the NBA, the decisions you make to try to win a championship are not going to work. It’s the hardest thing to do in sports. Uh it’s not guaranteed that they it would have worked with Luca. Uh it’s certainly not guaranteed that oh my god, like the team was all healthy going into the playoffs. Like I we don’t know that they I I don’t know if they would have beat OKC. I don’t know if they would have beat Indiana if they made it past OKC. You know, I don’t know what the future would have held. Uh Derrick Lively’s injury and and whether he can be healthy, you know, like in in the in the postseason, like that was a huge concern last season no matter what happened, even if the trade didn’t happen. But there’s no guarantee this works either. And so if you’re faced I I get it. You know, on one hand, I get it. you think that this decision makes it a little bit more likely. I understand that you have to do you know like like I I don’t know it it’s just it hard to do the hardest thing to do is win a championship. Yeah. And so I have always been of the school that because it’s so hard and because it’s not guaranteed. Yes. it is the thing that you’re trying to do every single season, but if it’s the only guiding light in principle that you have as a basketball franchise, like there has to be more than that or you have to be the Lakers or the Celtics and you just always win. I don’t know. They’re also kind of rambling. They’re also really good going to that Christmas game. Like all the indicators were like, right, yeah, this team, you know, like they’re 19 and 11, you know, top top 11 in offense and defense. like they were kind of checking a lot of the boxes of like maybe this is a team they can tend too. So we’ll we’ll never know. Do do you guys believe the skinny Luca stuff? Like I went through this with Zion every offseason. It’s like he’s getting we’re looking at photos of him and it’s like I I believe this time and they’re obviously different players but like what’s what’s you guys’ confidence level that like he’s just going to come into this season ready to just get I hope he does. I would I would like it would be a shame if we never saw just like super chiseled statues Luca. Like that would be so fun. He’d probably average 50 a game. I think at least the first half of next season he’s going to be I think he’s going to be pretty close to where he was a couple years ago. The first half. But but the the story with Luca every single time it’s when he reaches that first injury that he has to play through or has to sit out a week. How does he manage that? That has always been the story. every single most more seasons than not he has shown up in very good shape and sometimes even before the first game things happen like that was that was last season where it was the the injury the day before training camp that really derailed him but he always shows up in shape and I think he’s had more motivation and reason to do that than ever before but does he is he going to get fresher with the roster around him is he going to get fresher with DeAndre Aton and being like man can you just like like actually go catch a blob instead of you know stopping at the is Marcus smart still good. Yeah. And he’s going to Is are those frustrations going to, you know, bleed into the way that he conducts himself, you know, as a as a basketball player, as a basketball athlete. This is so tough, man, because like I mean, this is this same is true for the Mavs and really any team in the West. You can be a good team in the West, maybe even like a really good team that plays in the West and win 39 games, you know? like the value of a win is just so much higher in the west than it is in the east right now. And there is going to be a good team that stays pretty healthy that finishes outside the top eight. It’s going to shock you, you know, and it could be the it I it could be the Lakers. I could see them finish outside the top eight. Yeah, it’s possible. There’s there’s a Pelican season I covered, one of the few like pretty pretty good seasons they’ve had in franchise history. They won 49 games, ended up in the playin. Zian gets hurt against the Lakers that last game and then they have to play OKC in the first round, you know, without him. They just get swept and it’s like now it’s just kind of all turned to dust. But like that’s how unforgiving it is in the West. You can win 49 games. It was like the second most games they’d ever won in franchise history. Like you know, one of the most successful years they’ve ever had. It’s like swept the first round series against OKC. And now it’s like, yeah, we have to basically tear it down. And like that that is kind of why I think there is value in like let’s say okay Klay Thompson’s not Klay Thompson anymore right? But there is just some Klay Thompson’s never going to sign with the Pelicans in free agency you know and for the Mavs for a long time no one was signing with the Mavs in free agency even at Klay’s level where it’s like alltime great player that might be on the back nine. The Mavs weren’t getting those guys. We talked a little bit about that yesterday like or maybe two days ago, I don’t remember, but the Mavs are now in that sort of echelon of teams, you know, where like you can get those really good players. So, I don’t think whether whether this season goes well or or goes awfully, like I don’t think that it’s going to turn to dust for them at any point because like I think they’re in that group at least for now, you know, and that reputation sticks around for a little bit. And in that respect, you know, Nico and and and the front office have done a really good job because even front offices of the past that placed the correct amount of respect on Luca and Dirk’s names and whatever, uh, they weren’t getting those guys, you know, and the Mavs are now. And they do deserve a lot of credit for that because that kind of thing has a little bit of staying power even if, you know, uh, the the team building philosophy isn’t what we think it should be. And you know what helps, Bobby? What’s that? Cooper flag. He does help a lot. Yeah, he does help a lot. He does help a lot. Love it. Yeah. Not a not a true glamour franchise. They never will be. You know, those are those franchises are have been built by history and built by geography. Geography. Yep. Uh but they have done they have built a uh what is it? Visage of a of a glamour. They’ve built a a facade. Not even a facade. They’ve built a image that they are close or near to those franchises and it has benefited them a lot. You know what? We’re going to build a big old beach. We’re going to go to a lake near you and put some sand down and say, “Here’s the coastline. Free agents. LeBron, come sign here.” And we’re going to bring the rugged road coolers and we’re going to take all of them and our Shady Rays and our hats from Brandon Bills and all that stuff. Monarch Money is going to be mad about all the things I’m going to buy this weekend. Hey, you have a great weekend. Christian Clark from The Athletic. Thank you for joining us. Where can folks find you and your stuff? Uh on Twitter, not not X, Twitter, Christian PC Clark. And then you can read my stuff at the Athletic. Do that. Tim Ko, Tanner Rottman. Y’all have a great weekend. I’m Bobby Carella. Y’all have a great weekend and we will see you and Kevin Gray Jr. on Monday. Till then, take it easy. See y’all. [Music] [Applause] [Music]

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Many spots in the Dallas Mavericks’ projected starting lineup seem certain: Anthony Davis, Cooper Flagg, and D’Angelo Russell seem likely to begin the season in the first five, and either Dereck Lively II or Daniel Gafford will man the middle. But what about the fifth spot? Should it be PJ Washington or Klay Thompson? The Athletic’s Christian Clark joins the show to weigh in on this, plus what it was like to take over a beat the season the Mavs made one of the most controversial trades in NBA history, and much more.

#dallasmavs #nba #cooperflagg #anthonydavis #kyrieirving #dangelorussell #derecklively #pjwashington #danielgafford #klaythompson #najimarshall #jasonkidd

00:00 Intro
01:44 The Athletic’s Christian Clark joins us in studio
02:48 Who gets the fifth starting spot?
07:07 Who starts: Lively or Gafford?
09:55 How often will AD play the 5?
11:30 More discussion on the fifth starting spot
18:53 Thoughts on the Mavs roster construction
20:34 The importance of perimeter defense
26:18 Is there a consolidation move coming?
31:51 Christian’s experience covering the Luka trade
47:38 Mavs beat writer Q&A

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