LIVE: How Does Chris Boucher FIT on Celtics? | Garden Report

LIVE: How Does Chris Boucher FIT on Celtics? | Garden Report

Hard hat’s all about showing up to play hard, doing what it takes to win. If you want to cement legacy, win another. He’s your third center. You don’t want to pump him up too much, but it’s hard not to. This is maybe the most I’ve ever agreed with you. Hey, Bobby Manning here and welcome to a Wednesday edition of the Garden Report. said we’d be back next week, but here we are a day later. Three shows in a row and welcome him back Samson Folk for conversation about Chris Buchet and you’ve heard it by now. Celtics sign him to a one-year minimum after trading George Nyang yesterday. A surprise series moves after a pretty quiet month or so for them. Maybe two months at this point since the salary dumps. Uh so pleasant surprise at the start of August here. And I know you were just saying Samson, you you were surprised that he hadn’t been signed to this point. I almost in my mind thought he was restricted for some reason because those are all the guys that are still left floating around out there, the guys in restricted free agency. But he was unrestricted. Uh Toronto hadn’t brought him back. No one else did, even though there’s pretty general need for backup bigs depth around the league. Uh and certainly the Celtics need it more than anyone here. So adding him to the mix at that center position where they had three completely unproven guys or you know uncertain players at that position is a big boost for this team that was starting to have some doubts about being competitive this year. Yeah, I don’t think he swings it all the way into being competitive, but this might be kind of a a test year for him for when you guys get Well, maybe Boston fans have different ideas about this upcoming season, but I think it it would be tough to be at the top of the ladder without Tatum, but the next year maybe if Buché shows really well because while Jake Fischer reported that Boston had liked Buché, I I hadn’t heard that. Of course, Jake is more tapped in than me, but the the teams that were going after Buché in the trade market and kind of testing like how the Raptors felt was repeatedly for a couple years in a row, the Nuggets and the Suns, both teams were looking to contend. They wanted Buché as a fill-in piece who could help swing like a six-minute stretch in a playoff game who can help churn minutes in the regular season. And so Boston, I’m a little surprised that he ended up there, but I think he’s an NBA quality player. He scores the ball efficiently. He has a ton of length and activity on defense, even if he is prone to making like mental mistakes. Uh on a minimum, great, easy. I think this is awesome for the Celtics. Yeah, and he’s been playing in Toronto forever at this point. I saw Sham’s tweet that he’s all time leading everything off of off Toronto’s bench, which it had me in the first half. I was like, wait, all time points, assist, rebound, and then it was like all off the bench. All right. He he was there for seven years, 400 games in a Raptors uniform, champion, obviously. And as I saw this morning, the last player left from the championship team in 2019, uh, when he was effectively a rookie, uh, that year playing for the first time in the league. So, uh, he’s a veteran. He is 32. Y, so he’s pretty far into his career at this point and he’s a pretty versatile player, you know, from what I can sense here. He’s played center, he’s played forward. Um, it’s definitely the biggest position in need on Boston’s roster. And for him to be able to fill a couple different roles on that side of the ball, I think is really good along with the fact that he’s experienced and has played in a lot of big games. And I think it follows up the trend too I was saying this morning of the Celtics signing guys who have killed him in the past because he’s had some big games against Boston. Yeah. He’s he’s also a grinder, you know, like he he has a little bit of that Dennis Rodman path to the league where, you know, like he’s washing dishes and he didn’t as an adult, right? And he didn’t have the, you know, straightforward path of being like a star out of high school and then getting into college. It was he had this winding path where he was just kind of playing basketball as, you know, a young adult and got recruited and then started being like, “Oh, I’m talented. I’m skilled. I’m huge.” And just worked his way through junior college in Oregon, then all the way in the NBA and to the Warriors to the Raptors and obviously now with the Celtics. Uh he was really wellliked in Toronto. Uh he is a guy who I know Boston is like a hard hat city, so he always leaves everything on the floor. That’s a huge staple of his game. he hits guarded threes, he will crash the offensive glass and he’ll bust his hump every time he goes out there. So, I think from that perspective, there’s a good chance that, you know, Celtics fans will really enjoy watching him on the team this season. Yeah. And I was reading through the story you posted over on uh Raptors Republic, uh you know, that you reshade from January there, and I I’m I’m going through it and I’m like, whoa, he he was the bright spot of the Tampa season. I totally forgot there was a Tampa. That’s horrible. I mean, he definitely was starting to show out for them at a certain point there as they were coming out of the championship era and transitioning to what was next there. Um, so at this point, you know, a couple years removed from that and showing the potential he had there. Like I know cutting big part of his game. He can knock down a corner three. He can play a couple different positions. Um, he was part of that thing they were trying to do there where they were just playing long players at every position for a while with Nick Nurse. So, he’s been through a bunch of renditions of not only his own game, but also what that team was trying to do up there. And I think that puts him in a good position to be able to do a bunch of different stuff for Boston. He’s going to have to this year, I guess, from like the the way you guys played offense, do you expect it to change a lot heading into this upcoming season? So, what kind of what kind of differences are you looking for from the Celtics? So, in summer league, I was so pleasantly surprised to see three things from them. Faster pace, because by the end of the year, they were down to last and pace. I know that’s go that stats wonky, but being last in it, I think says something when you get down to that level. Playoffs, too. They were very slow. Brad Stevens even admitted that. So, they have the personnel to play faster this year. They have a little more athleticism. So, I think they need to utilize that. And then in the half court, this is the team that cut the 27th most in the league. I believe they were bottom five or six in and cutting, you know, per game possession. So, that’s something that’s going to have to happen here, too. And I heard Brad after the season and during summer league on the broadcast talking about we have to play to the skill set of the players that we have now. And this was obviously a team that shot a lot of threes, played five out, played pretty methodical hunting mismatches. Uh, and that slowed things down a little bit. And now where you aren’t going to have as many mismatches, where you aren’t going to be able to generate as many advantages with with the talent you have here, I think you’re going to have to play faster. I think you’re going to have to be more active in the half court with the cutting and play calls and all that kind of stuff. And um even saw them experimenting with some pressing in summer league too, which you know we saw Indiana succeed and I think set the standard for doing that last year and really the last couple years here. So those are all things I think that they can borrow from what’s been shown to be successful around the league, but also works well for their own personnel here. And the cutting with Bouche really intrigues me because they’ve added a couple guys now that are pretty skilled cutters. That’s when I think about that that Boston team, I always even though they won a chip and I thought obviously on the back of their defense, which was unbelievable. I thought the the greatest limitation of their team was their like obviously Tatum had gotten to a pretty strong place as a playmaker largely because of where he can get to on the floor, but they didn’t have like truly dynamic passing. And I think when you don’t have truly dynamic passing, it’s easier to not have a bunch of sequenced cutting that guys have to read while they’re on ball. So just spacing out and making sure that reads are kind of where you expect them to be weeks. I’ll tell you this cuz I know this for a fact. They didn’t like cutting cuz it clogs up the paint. They wanted you No, really. Like they wanted that paint area open and that’s why they played so spaced out, had guys in the corners, wanted five shooters out there at almost all times because it opened up those driving lanes for Tatum and Brown and the driving kick game and all that. And it worked because of Jason Tatum and the personnel that they had. But that’s gonna have to change now, I think. I don’t know if you agree with that. I I do agree with that. I also agree with the like you talked about Indiana, but also like Cleveland and even Denver is like you can still prioritize spacing while also sequencing cutting. You know, there’s a there’s a type of like guard to dunker spot forward to corner type of sequenced like semicircle cut that the Cavs run all the time. and they obviously they prioritize spacing when I mean the Celtics did this as well with Drew Holiday more than anybody, but moving a guard into the dunker spot still helps with spacing because it puts, you know, a guard at the rim typically. I guess it depends who was guarding Drew at the time, but regardless, the the passing, I’m really interested to see how it elevates for the Celtics and how they do with more motion in their offense because more motion means that there’s more potential for dynamic live dribble passing rather than like drive and kick, which is usually pretty ro guys who are making live dribble, if there’s a 45 cut, if there’s a corner crash, either of which Chris Buché will fit very well in. And I’m sure guys like Derek White obviously can make those reads as well as an offball player. I’m really interested to see where that develops for the Celtics offense because this is a really this is like an in between year where they get to try a lot of things. Yeah. And so I I’m seeing a lot of the projections slotting him in at the four next to Kada. And I guess that moves Sam Howard to the bench in the lineup I’ve been envisioning which I would have a huge problem with. I would like to see one of Payton Pritchard or Sam H in the starting lineup just for continuity sake and given what they’ve done here. Um but I understand one a mix and match lineups effectively to cater everybody’s skill set. So I I could see him starting it might change night. Um but regardless of start bench whatever he he does where he enters the game. What do you think his best role is in this offense? uh with given the personnel that they have like where’s he going to fit in mostly in terms of his offensive skill set. Well, if you guys who’s who’s playing the five for you guys like is that a defin, right? Like that’s a possibility if they want to go even smaller per se. Bush could, but I do think that’s a man coming from the Celtics team that I’ve known like was it 100 days ago it was Porzingis, Al Horford, Luke Cornet. Now it’s Chris Bucher or Nish Kada who’s going to start and maybe Luca Garza gets into this conversation. And even and even Tatum kind of because he’s such an impressive rebounder he can center for them. Yeah. He can operate as a four or five. Wow. This is Yeah. Well, Kada and Buché I think is actually while it’s definitely a huge downgrade from the talent perspective and the Celtics understand what they’re doing going through this, but I think that’s actually a pretty good fit because Kada kind of sit he sits lower and around the rim and Buché is at his most effective even though he does make mistakes sometimes in you know what rotation being a court coverage player who kind of sprints from baseline to B or sideline to sideline trying to cover space and create turnovers and all that kind of stuff. Playing fast going the other way. I think as a four next to Kada and especially with like playmaking defensive guards like White and Pritchard and Brown, we’ll see because he’ll have a big offensive load this year what his defense is like. I think he fits pretty well skill setwise in their starting lineup. But I got to say, yeah, from the outside perspective, just remembering what this Celtics front court was to now what it’s being is kind of like a shock. Yeah, absolutely. And I I’m trying to pull it up here quickly what uh he was from the corner this year. Um I don’t know why I can’t find him in this list here. Yeah, there we go. 39% from corner three on two attempts a game. So, it’s a good area for him cutting wise and and shooting from there. And you know, if he if they are going to be in a double big alignment, you know, that gives them some size on the offensive glass. Kate is a great offensive rebounder. gives him more versatility defensively. And that’s that’s my next question for you is what kind of defender is he at this point in his career? Where’s he going to fit best on the defensive side of the ball? Yeah, it it is in that, you know, court coverage because he he’s an extremely active defender, which makes him prone to huge plays. He’s blocked. If he’s not number one, he’s definitely number like the top five in three-pointers blocked over the past however many years. He really sprints out, chases shooters down, runs shooters off the line, which does pair pretty well with having Kada back at the rim, forcing guys downhill and into the mid-range, I think, is a decent fit there. But he’s he can obviously be like a weak side rim protector and and rotate over, but it’s not the strength of his game. You wouldn’t want him switching out on a bunch of guys. It’s not going to be like he’s not incredible at containment there. I think you mostly want him just making like big rotations, xing out and covering the court. And he basically operates like a a three. You know, he can get blocks, but a lot of them are not exactly um because of size or because of chasing guys down either from behind at the rim or uh on the perimeter for a three-point shot. It’s very rare that he goes and, you know, meets somebody up with the law of ver verticality and blocks somebody. So, I think playing like a a three/4 is probably around where he’ll fit defensively. Yeah, and that makes sense cuz he’s a he’s a skinnier body. So, I think the five is going to be a challenge for him at times, even though he has length. Even though I’m sure they’ll figure out some other ways to match up there that allows him to be in the best position defensively they can be. And I I think about that with Kada, too, cuz obviously before Buché arrives, I’m thinking Kada is going to be logging 25 30 minutes a game at the five spot and he’s a decent rim protector, but I think what he’s shown best is roaming defensively and playing off non-shooters and, you know, trying to be disruptive inside there. And I think that’s something they’ve utilized a lot under Joe Mazula, even going back to Team Audoka, who probably spearheaded a lot of that in Boston. So that’s the advantage to playing double bigs in some sense is you can have those guys trade off responsibilities on the center depending on who it is. I’ve thought about Luca Garza playing in that dynamic too, just having him guard more of those traditional fives and letting Kada roam, letting Abushe roam a little bit in that spot. So, I think that’s going to be crucial for them defensively because with Holiday gone, with Horford gone, Cornet, a lot of those guys who were so versatile, even Porzingis could really get out on the perimeter and switch when he needed to, they just not going to be able to mix and match where they put defenders the way they did in the past. Like, I think it’s going to be, as you said with Buché, more matchup based where he’s only guarding threes, where he’s only guarding fours as much as he can. um and trying to keep him out of switches and not playing as much of a switch heavy defensive scheme as they’ve done the last couple years and really since that EMA year they’ve switched about as much as anybody um defensively and they just don’t have the personnel for that now. Like Kada decent switcher Buchet I’m sure can get out on guys a little bit but like you said that’s not where you want him necessarily. And even like Derek White, Jaylen Brown, as great as those guys are defensively at times, they don’t play up in position quite the same way Drew Holiday did. Um certainly Al Horford could really play up on some bigger guys. Like there was just an interchangeability defensively they had that they don’t have now. And I think like offensively I think this team’s going to be okay. Defensively I think there’s a lot of questions especially with the personnel going out. Yeah, I I agree with that. I think cuz that’s actually Buché. He scores the ball. He He really does. If he’s if he’s in a starting lineup that has Derek White and Pton Pritchard and Jaylen Brown and like Kada will occupy some sort of tag responsibilities and Kada has obviously a bit of gravity cuz he’s such a big target that guys will float towards him. Uh there’ll be openings for Bouche if he’s starting and he’ll probably my guess would be he’d be north of 60% true shooting. He’ll give you, you know, probably more points than the fan base is expecting and he’ll just clean up and take open shots and, you know, crash the offensive glass and cut to the rim. And if they like, obviously, I think Pritchard can run the pick and roll decently well. Same with Jaylen Brown. Those pocket passes into, you know, Chris Buchchet to gather into the lane. He can finish above the rim like he’s a great dunker. He uses his length really well. He’ll score. Uh, defensively though, yeah, the the Celtics, I agree with you. It’s I’m really Joe is I think a really brilliant coach and I wonder what machinations he comes up with this season to kind of see what happens here. Yeah. And I I think there’s going to test this flexibility, too, because they did stuff that worked for a while to start his coaching tenure on this team. And I’m sure there’s going to be some inclination of trying to maintain a lot of that stuff even though it’s different personnel. And I just don’t think that’s the way to go. Now, we saw them experiment a lot more last year with lineups, with schemes, with trying different things offensively, defensively. So, I think he’s shown an openness to trying different things, but doing it is, you know, night to night and rolling with players through mistakes and and all that sort of stuff because this is just such a reliable team. And honestly, a lot of his coaching was just leaning on those guys’s observations and specifically on the defensive end. Like, if Drew Holiday saw something, they could make a change. And even Luke Cornett, if he saw something, he had the power to switch up, you know, what they were doing from that back line. And that’s the killer of not having the same center room that they’ve had the last couple years here. And you think of Horford, how long he’s been here with playing with so many of these guys. There’s just such a connectivity between guys Brian Tatum and uh Horford especially who have played together since 2017. And that’s gone now when you think of Tatum being heard and and Horford being out the door here. Tatum. I think he’s Tatum is obviously a massive piece, but the thing that makes him so damn good is that he does not let you down defensively. He guards up and he guarding Towns that whole Knicks series. Like the that’s the the Pacers had to find somebody to guard Towns and Pascal gave up like 25 pounds and did it so they got to go to the finals. like having a guy and Pascal is obviously more at power forward than Tatum is, but Tatum is so special. Not because like if you go his raw numbers next to the other like top five guys who are in that conversation, he doesn’t really match up in that sense, but it’s the flexibility of his defense and you can just do such funky lineups when he’s out there. You can kind of try anything because he just glues everything together. He’s like he he is a both a superstar and like the ultimate glue to lineups which is is such a unique aspect of his game. So missing him just and I guess they they traded off like everybody to get around all this this cap stuff. But Tatum I just Yeah, he he’s so impressive that you know I’ll be excited once he’s back obviously. Yeah. And it’s going to be tough year without him once he is back. We’ll see where the roster is and there’s definitely a lot of long-term stuff that they’re trying to piece together here. But this move I think shows still a desire to be competitive at least to start this year. And um I was saying to you off the air like there’s an advantage to doing a one-year deal from a cap standpoint. And that’s I think a lot of the motivation of these moves is trying to lower that tax hit, trying to lower that cap hit. And um this is a $3.3 million deal, but I think it comes in at 2.2 two on the cap sheet, which with tax is significant. Um, there’s a weird rule that you get a discount on veteran minimum salaries. So, this is actually like a $2 million deal for Boston, which is unbelievable when you think of what he’s done. I was looking at the per 36 here. 21 last year per 36, nine rebounds. He’s basically been 10 rebounds per 36 for his whole career. And an efficient player, 50 from the field mostly um throughout his career, 36 from three on eight attempts per 36 last year. So, uh, he’s going to be a good fit in a number of ways, I think, and I’m excited to see what he can bring to the table and how they’re going to utilize him. I I thought this was an awesome move. And obviously, if you missed it yesterday, Celtics, um, salary dump, George Nyang, who I wasn’t super thrilled about his fit here and what he was going to bring to the table. And obviously, he was at like 8 million, 8.8 million, something like that. So, not a huge surprise that they end up moving on from him here in Utah. Austin A does does Boston a real solid here taking him into a trade exception. So they move off that 89 million in full here. Give up a couple second rounders. The second rounders according to Jake King was a 27 Magic pick that they got from moving back this year. That was theirs originally. They traded to Orlando and then got back this year. Um I think that went out for Evan Forier to do some uh cap tra uh some you know pick trade history here. So that’s moved around a lot. Uh so that’s going to Utah. And then uh 31 that they got with Nyang from Atlanta is going to Utah as well. So that effectively goes with Nyang over to uh Utah. So um two seconds but two seconds they had gotten you know for some cap maneuvering already here. So not huge losses. Also he moves on. Second rounders aren’t the NIL stuff has really weakened the pool second round draft picks. That’s what obviously as a the Raptors have had quite a few of them over the past couple years and I’ve really noticed like guys that I’ve really liked and that I’ve noticed other like teams have liked and talk about a lot of those guys they stay and those guys come back a year later and then they sneak into the first round and it’s just like well next year is supposed to be really strong so I wonder but 2026 I mean we’ll see but this year’s second round draft class was definitely not incredibly strong uh the year before not incredibly strong. So the the second round pool is definitely second rounders I understand from a cap perspective are really nice and there’s definitely guys who have hit but it’s not the cheat code that it used to be because the the NIL guys they go like why would you go to the NBA for a second round deal if you can just get like $6 million from Michigan or something you know like Yakel Lendorg. So there’s Yeah, it’s it’s not as uh a big a deal as it used to be, I think. Yeah. The international scouting’s gotten to a point where the Jokices of the world, I don’t think, are sliding to the second round the way they used to. And you saw it with Tons Yang this year. I love Yeah. to go second round. When we did our draft stuff, he was still I think he was projected like between 30 and 40. And I was like, I think this guy’s one of the best bigs in the draft. Cuz I loved his tape. And then he went 16 and I was like, “Oh, yeah. Nobody will ever fall again.” It seems it’s just like guys will get picked. No, no way. So, um, that’s come a long way, you know, in the 10 years now plus since since Yokic went and other guys have fallen. So, I think that’s a good observation. And, you know, the caps stuff on all that too makes it so that um, you’re just not getting the same value there necessarily. it’s going to be more guys if you’re trying to make them take two ways and do the different things to shave off money. You’re just not going to be getting as quality of a player there. And um I think you saw it with the Celtics this year, too, who moved back and got a couple two-way guys who who looked okay in summer league between Amari Williams and Max Scholga, but probably going to be up in Maine this year for the most part. They’re not going to be ready to go guys. So, yeah, I agree on the second round stuff there. And I want to talk some Pacers, too, cuz you did a tremendous job covering that Pacers run. It’s the first time we’ve had you on since um the Pacers went to the finals, and I got replaced on my other podcast, you know, so I’m here doing this one. We’ll get to that in a second. But first, I want to shout out prize picks where there’s still a lot of action going on this summer. Women’s basketball in full swing. Love adding Asia Wilson to my lineup. Britney Sykes is going out to Seattle. uh Syracuse’s star who uh got traded by Washington. So, I love building a women’s basketball lineups here, Daily Fantasy over on Prize Picks and I hopefully Caitlyn Clark will be back soon and some of the other injured stars. I know Angel Reese was off the court for a little bit as well. Um so, you can do uh that every day. Check out what they’re going to project for points, rebounds, assists. And if you’ve played prize picks, you know it’s more or less on points, assists, rebounds for a shot to win up to 2,000 times your cash. Earn your game all season long on prize picks. Best place to win cash while watching sports. Baseball going on now as well. Went to a baseball game last night. Some big performances from William Brau, Trevor Story, but the stars driving this thing. Lindor Otani, you know, those are the guys you want to add to your lineup any given night. again more or less on hits, home runs, steals, all the stat lines on the baseball field. You can combine uh players from different leagues, too. So, you can draft an Asia Wilson as well as an Otani to your team and boom, you get your team for that night. So, go over there, sign up, use a code, and when you play $5, you’ll get $50 instantly. $50 bonus is guaranteed. You don’t even need to win to receive the bonus. So, go over there against CNNs. Uh when you play your first lineup, $5, you’ll get 50 instantly. And a lot of free promotions going on. Free squares. Taco Tuesday was yesterday with player projection discounts up to 25%. You got Flex Friday, uh where you can still cash out even if your lineup isn’t perfect. Uh and double your money even if one of your picks doesn’t hit. So go check that out. Again, CNS gets you $50 when you play at $5 over on prize picks. Run your game. So the Pacers, man, it was a fun watch. It was fun watching you guys break it down. Uh, and unfortunately in a parallel to the Celtics fate, Tyrese Haliburn goes down in game seven. And I was so scared going into game six, I believe. Yeah. Where he was already dealing with that because I’m like, “Oh, calf.” You know how that can go sometimes. And he got through the game. Wasn’t himself, but played well and you thought, “All right, he’s past this.” So, I wasn’t even thinking about it going into game seven. and then it happened a game later than I thought it would. So awful. Uh I think they would have won that game if that didn’t happen. Who knows? But great run. We already talked about some of the impact that what they did will have on the league. And I think the team building stuff’s less pertinent because so much of it was random and lucky and you know u opportunistic especially with the Hallebertton stuff moving on from Sacramento. but play style and utilizing depth and the interchangeability of some of their ball handlers and and there’s just so much stuff you can pull from that run. The pressing that they did that it was it was one of the more impressive basketball runs at any level I’ve seen. And even though they didn’t win the championship, it’s definitely a team worth remembering for a long time. Yeah, I thought that um I guess this isn’t exactly a novel takeaway. Most people had this, but the Pacers were displaying some of the more forwardthinking offensive principles and the Thunder were displaying some of the more uh forward thinking defensive principles. And I think both styles will help inform how the next, you know, two, three years of the NBA looks, at least on the margins, because you of course you can’t you can’t decide like immediately, hey, we’re going to play like the Pacers do or because it’s obviously you play according to your your skill set and your personnel, but on the margins, you can ask for a couple of different things like the the press defense, the Pacers obviously were probably the best at it over the past two years at implementing it and ramping it up. But that started with Chanty Bilips and the Trailblazers. He was the one who was like, “Well, I think we’re going to do this cuz we’re young.” And when I was a guard, I hated when this happened to me. And then once it started once it started happening I guess more on the the wide scale of the NBA then teams kind of look at it and get to dive into big heaps of data and then see trends start like oh what what does this kind of defense inform over 48 minutes? What happens here? How does it affect primary ball handler statistics? How does it change the rhythm of offense? and the Pacers who were looking for a way to keep Tyrese Hallebertton out of actions and looking for a way to keep Miles Turner, you know, like in a more limited role because he he definitely his defense took a big step back. They were like, “Well, if we set the terms of engagement with press defense through largely Nemhard and Nmith and and Pascal obviously can two on forwards and then bringing guys like TJ and and Shepard off the bench, then we can we can definitely be able to bring something there. So, that was cool to see. And then offensively, I mean, nobody really does it like Tyrese, just whipping the ball around and understanding where the defense is leaning, where the ball should go, hit aheads, um, switching the play from one side of the court to another, just so impressive in that regard. So, they they were a fun team to watch, man. And then, you know, Pascal operating as like a a Swiss Army knife who filled the holes defensively, who filled the holes offensively, and who ended up taking the marquee matchup basically every series. They just played fun basketball. And I think I tend to agree with you. Like, not to do, obviously, the Raptors are the team I’ve covered. Injuries happen and teams go on to win. It is what it is. But I would have loved to see Tyrese, who had like nine points in seven minutes, have his game and see where that game seven ended up. It would have been awesome. But same and then when he goes down you’re like all right hopefully they can win it for him just from the storyline perspective and wanting to see that run affirm cuz unfortunately they won’t get the same treatment the champions have even though there’s probably a case that they had a better season than teams that actually won the championship and that you know goes back to the ring conversation and just how every year is a little different and the competition’s not always the same and all that stuff like their upset win over the Knicks and again I thought the Knicks were going to win that series was super impressive especially the way they flipped the first game with Aaron E Smith the former Celtic pulling off one of the alltime performances and you know that’s it’s so tough to me because when you think of these championship runs and moments teams had along the way like they had the Hallebertton game winners and the comebacks and and that performance by Nmith like those are the sort of stuff that just go down in legend in a city, you know, when a team wins a championship. And I hope Indiana and, you know, fans there specifically are able to appreciate it the same way because again, you know, you don’t have the trophy, you don’t have the rings, and you weren’t the champion, but you had all those championship moments. And again, who knows what happens if if there isn’t that injury in the in the seventh game and what was I think a 1616 game at that point. So, I I think about like 2022 with the Celtics, too. Like, it was such a impressive, crucial season. Obviously, they win the championship down the line, so it ends up becoming part of the story. And maybe the Pacers can do that here, but it’s going to be a little tough cuz Achilles tear knocks Hallebertton out for this season. Obviously, it’s a difficult one to come back even when he does. Um, Miles Turner goes out the door, which was pretty stunning. I I think it’s something that they can recover from, but not super easily. And this is going to be just like for Boston and all the stuff we mentioned with them, a challenging year. Like what what is it? Jay Huff at center. I like that move. Um they have Isaiah Jackson back. There’s still a lot of continuity here. I know Rick Carlo told Caitlyn that Matine’s going to start and I think he took a real leap during the playoffs. So to me, and I I think it’s interesting to compare Boston Indiana because they’re at a similar place in the conference and just where their teams and rosters are at. I I think the Pacers are pretty well equipped to exceed expectations this year. I think they’re overunders at like 39. I could definitely see them being 500 or above with what they have right now, but a lot of it’s going to fall on Nem Hart sliding over for a full season. Um Seakum is going to have to be the driver of this offense and in a way that um Jaylen Brown’s going to have to be in Boston this year. And a lot of guys are going to have to step up specifically at center where it’s going to be Jackson, James Wiseman coming off Achilles himself and Huff who I love. I I really like that addition for them. Yeah, I think uh I would I would take the over there as well. I it it should be interesting to see how much because Nemhard obviously his stats in the playoffs are great. He’s efficient. He runs a good pick and roll, but a lot of that comes from the benefit of, and I know you watched mine and Caitlyn’s work of running the four-on-our offense when Halurn kind of takes his press defense guard out of or if it’s bridges a wing out of the out of the offense and they play fouron four, it’s it’s obviously everyone who’s played basketball knows less people on the floor, easier to get buckets. Nhard should be really interesting to to monitor. Matherin I think is primed and like yeah that’s the thing is Seakkum when he went from Toronto to Indiana he took it was a huge jump in usage downward and he was like okay I’m playing a different role for a year ratcheting it back up this is a guy who just a couple years ago led the NBA in isolations led the NBA in closeouts and led the NBA in minutes played per game just like under Nick Nurse just a titan of work and creation and So, it should be interesting to see what the what style the Pacers play because they do want to play that style, but Hallelbertton on the controls is just much different than anybody else. So, I’m I’m really in like these two teams as you said being evaluated similarly. I think one makes sense and they both are going to be radically different than what we’ve seen of them from the from what we understand of these teams and it’s uh like it’s necessitated by injury. So, I don’t know. We’ll see. Man, I I think probably I know I’m on the Celtics podcast, but Pacers maybe I’d expect them to have a little bit better of a record than the Celtics. That’s how I’m feeling, too. And when I first stacked the teams up, I did put Boston ahead of Indie. But the more I thought about it, like you look back to that East Finals between Boston and Indie. And when Hallebertton goes down, the Pacers are leading in those games three and four without him. And trying to figure it out, they they came up with great game plans to make it work without him. I think Seakkum has filled that primary scoring role more often in his career than Jaylen has to this point because Jason’s just been there every night for his whole career. You know, he hasn’t missed any time in his career. Now he’s going to miss a full season. So I think for Boston’s top tier, you know, top end players, they’re capable, right, White of taking on more responsibility. Pritchard certainly Brown, but those guys haven’t done it yet. Indiana St. Akam’s done it going back to Toronto after Quai left and uh Nemhard did it in those East finals and TJ McConnell even has experience with it off the bench like there’s a lot of guys there who have already stepped up in the bigger roles in their careers and Carile’s had to do it without Hallebertton for long stretches as well when he’s been out with injury over the last couple years. So we’ve seen Indiana do it without Hallebert and we haven’t seen Boston do it without Tatum. So, for that reason, I’m going to go Indiana over Boston, even if it’s by a hair. I like Jay Huff, too, most out of all those centers. I’ll keep going back to that. I can’t believe they got him for a couple seconds. Um, on a three-year deal where he’s made basically making like eight million over three years. So, I don’t know how they pulled that off, but that filled that center spot well, I thought, um, with some of the other guys coming back there. So, I I’ll describe it this way. I guess I like Boston’s one through three better on their depth chart, but Indiana by far has the better three through like eight, nine. So I it’s a depth league now to me. And you know, when I stack up, there’s five teams I’m interested in. And maybe you want to throw Toronto in here. I know Michael Peina did when I talked to him yesterday. He had them like ninth, I believe, and he had Boston 12. So I wasn’t even thinking about Toronto in this conversation, but I guess you can put them in there. But I stacked up Miami six. Um, probably Milwaukee 7, eight, I’d go Indie. Nine, Boston, 10, Philly, and then Chicago, Toronto on the outside looking in just cuz Miami is the healthiest. They have the most guys there. They got the coach. Milwaukeee’s got Giannis. I’ll give them the benefit of the doubt on that. even if I don’t love their off um you know supporting cast around them. Philly I just can’t give the benefit of the doubt to with the health stuff. I mean those two guys aren’t even going to be there to start the year. I don’t think so. I guess I’ll check back in when they are. Even though I like some of their younger guys and then Boston Indiana, I think they’re playing teams. I think they’re at least in the playing mix. I don’t I don’t I don’t see those two teams barring injury and they’re very susceptible to injury because they’re already hurt. Um so I’ll give the benefit of the doubt to the teams that are healthy right now. And for Boston Indiana, they got a lot to figure out. So I’m going to put them in like that 89 territory. I would put uh if I’m ranking Toronto is definitely for me in the playing situation. Um, and like if if I’m being a homer, I’m being a homer. But I think from my perspective of analyzing, I think they have all the all the reason and all the motivation to to make a jump. Like they they weren’t healthy at all last year. They are definitely more Yeah, Raptors. They’re definitely a more talent a much more talented team now. And while I understand when people look from the from the outside looking in saying what exactly is the path to being like a contender in the I understand that being like well Ingram isn’t going to take you there but Ingram will definitely help them win games. So I have two questions with them. Yeah. One the depth. I love the starting five the five players specifically there. I don’t know what they have behind it. Even though Grady Dick took some strides and Jamal Jed shown, you know, some good moments and, you know, there’s there’s definitely guys off that bench and they drafted a top 10 player this year as well who I’m not super familiar with. Um, but he’s fun. Celtic fans who have watched a lot of like ball pressure and like badgering defense. He he would fit well there. Yeah, that’s what they wanted to do, right? Like, you know, they they were the second best defensive team down the stretch last year. So, he fits that uh style that they want to play there. So there’s definitely some pieces to work with there. So that’s my first question with them. Second is the amount of guys there who I think are at their best with the ball in their hands and I have questions about when they don’t. Barrett obviously I you know back to his Duke days and I watch them a lot at Duke. Whenever he had the ball I always thought he was a much better player and when he was off the ball I didn’t really know how it fit. New York too with him. Ingram, I think it’s a similar story. And Barnes, I know you’re the king of the Barnes. Um, I actually don’t have that that reputation within the within the fan base cuz like I know I know for like for me, I do the work and I know a lot of people from outside the market see my work on the Raptors, but there’s a lot of people who are kind of like in a just a Toronto bubble who go way harder for Scotty than me. I I just I just know you want the ball in his hands probably for his development and where his career is going. So, I don’t know how do they and even quickly too. Like he’s probably the most suited to play off ball out of all those guys, but he’s another guy who I I think is at his best when he’s, you know, creating off the bounce there. So, it it’s tough to me when there’s one ball and four guys who are primary creators to me. Maybe I’m reading that wrong from the outside, but that’s been my perspective on the Raptors. Um, and obviously the benefit of that is if guys go down like someone else can just step into that spot. So, they’re well suited to deal with injuries. But, um, I don’t know how well do those guys compliment each other. I think they it is uh an underrated fit and because honestly like Scotty does need the ball in some cases for reps and development, but he is much better as an off-ball player right now because as a play finisher, he’s obviously very strong at the rim. He pressures the offensive glass a bunch as a a hub. He’s a really talented playmaker at his size. Obviously, as a guy who compliments other players, he’s truly truly special in that regard. We saw last year he was on the ball all the time getting reps and development and he was not special in that regard at all. He he struggled a lot. RJ Barrett when Seakkum was still on the team and when they were playing not through him his true shooting percentage was around like 60% because he was running out in transition. He was cutting more and he was taking mostly spot up threes instead of pull-ups. His shot mechanics do not lend towards pull-ups at all. So RJ I don’t think is better with the ball. I actually think the only guy who’s better with the ball and that you’d want to give the ball to repeatedly is Ingram. And Ingram has said that he’s planning on cutting more this year on more catch and shoot three-point opportunities. So, of course, players say this stuff. Everyone has an idealized version of themselves in their team. But I think as long as as long as the hierarchy is established from Darko and these players are put in the right positions, they have the skill set to play very well. However, they’re healthy. Yeah. and their tendencies are going to dominate this because Quickley is an unbelievable shooter, but he’s just lazy as an offball mover and he floats. He doesn’t form up to like Celtics fans will know what it looks like for guys to form up to drivers and to really make yourself available for drive and kick opportunities. Quickly floats out above the perimeter. He doesn’t help out that much. His his catch and shoot volume is so low for the level of shooter he is. It’s guys have to change how they apply their skill sets. But the skill sets and the talent is definitely there for the Raptors. It’s just it’s it’s a change in how they play. So, they have the potential, but I understand why people would look at it and be like, eh, but I’m I’m around the team. I’ve watched these guys a lot and I see the path for optimism, I guess. Yeah, there’s a path for sure for them. And they got close late in the year. They were pretty close to that last playing spot and breaking through there. So, you know, they were moving in that direction. and they’re in a similar spot to Portland almost where they’re bringing in talent and their young guys coming up and they’re on the edge and precipice of that playoff spot and it looked like they want to take a leap this year based on what they did and what they try to do I thought was really um intriguing for both teams cuz I I mentioned this to you when we were out at summer league and um you know we’ve heard it from a couple reporters now that um the Raptors offered their number nine pick and RJ Barrett for Derek White. Now, I don’t know what else was in this deal. If this was all it was, I understand Boston turning it down. Uh, and obviously there’s a two-year contract with Barrett that they didn’t want to take on. And, um, I also heard that, you know, Holiday, this could have been in play for Holiday, too. Um, I’m not as certain about that, but um, it makes sense, too, his skill set and what they’re looking for. Obviously, Holiday does a lot of the same stuff as White and Boston was looking to get off that long-term deal in Holiday, but that would have been a three-year deal for a two-year deal coming back in Barrett and they ended up getting a one-year contract back in Silence. So, I think a lot of this stuff lines up. I think it made a ton of sense for Toronto, right? Swapping in one of those guys with a shooter with a secondary ball handler. I mean, Derek White in place of Barrett makes all this stuff make sense for the Raptors. Um, even Holiday, I think in place of Barrett, at least for a year or two, could have made some stuff make sense there and would have fit their defensive identity. So, I don’t know. I I I would turn this down to give up White. I think you can get a lot more from White and there probably was a lot more first round picks at least out there for White. Um, and I didn’t love the talent available at number nine when it got there necessarily, at least to, you know, stack up to what White’s become for Boston. So, I like Barrett. Um, money aside, I probably would have taken Barrett and Nine for Holiday over Simons and I think that’s showing now. U, but this this is an interesting conversation that happened here and you know, I’m sure they probably had some interest in what Jaylen Brown would have cost as well. So, um, nothing happened here, but an interesting offer here for Derek White at the very least. Yeah, I I believe the holiday one I’m pretty sure is a different structure. like it was I don’t I don’t think there’s a pick. Um but with White I think there was and from the Raptors as you said Derek Derek putting Derek White in place of RJ Barrett in the Raptor starting lineup suddenly everything connects and makes sense there like contender sailing there at that point. Uh and then but from the Celtics perspective I think that would be kind of like you’re you’re kicking the can down the road not to Tatum’s first year back but maybe to his second or third year back. like you’re kind of giving up on the window because Derek White is so he’s obviously essential to any deep run that the Celtics have and replacing him immediately would become incredibly hard because he’s such a unique and fantastic player. He’s the archetype that a lot of two guards coming into the league want to emulate and duo certainly. Yeah. And on like on top of that, they you keep them because you believe in the short term of when Tatum returns. And I think that makes sense for Boston because I know they’ve had to make moves and had to kind of like juggle everything, but getting rid of White I think would have signaled like, oh man, this path is longer than I thought. Yeah. And he’s so coveted. And I think as teams start to want to take a leap and and Portland certainly wanted to do that with Holiday, so they take on his deal, which wasn’t a great one. And I think Boston was fortunate to move off that the way they did, even though Simon’s coming back is in flux a little bit. I don’t know what his long-term future is going to be here. But White’s a guy who in the short term for Boston once Tatum gets back is is crucial to getting back to where they want to be, but also I think is only going to grow in value over time. Like I think he’s going to have another good year here. He’s still relatively young and he’s ascending like every year it seems like he’s getting better from three, more versatile defensively. Last year I mean it was against Toronto, right, where he was playing the five and just blocking shots repeatedly at the rim and I think it was some sort of zone look that they were playing around with that night. And so this guy is just perfect and I’m sure every team called Boston to see what it would cost. Yeah. Um, even more so than Brown because I just think Brown fits onto a team like if we want to use Toronto for example in an uncertain position of all right, is this guy actually going to be the star and the hub of everything we’re doing because he hasn’t done that in his career at least for a full season. When you’re putting White on a team, it’s like all right, is he going to defend, shoot threes on and off the ball, create a little bit on and off the ball, uh, screen? Like, is that going to fit here? and every team’s going to say yes. So, this is a guy that I think and I know it’s been described as can they get a male Bridges offer like what the Nets did for, you know, moving them over to the Knicks. And that’s what I think it’s going to come to. If Boston does have to trade Brown or White eventually to make this rebuild, retool work and maybe get things on more of a younger timeline. I think there will be a team that steps up to the plate eventually and says, “All right, four, five first, I guess we’ll do it.” And Toronto’s not there yet, right? Like they’re not going to right now be a championship team, right? Because you have to you have to feel good about winning a championship to do something like that. But, you know, if things go way better than expected for Toronto this year and they really want to make an aggressive move to get in that conversation or next year maybe even after this one, that’s where it’s like, okay, you know, next summer, are you having conversations about White for many more and a lot more value here? Because again, I don’t think this is enough for White even though I like Barrett. If I’m if I’m a contender this season, like as long as I’m a contender in the NBA for that’s I don’t know how old White is between 30 and 30. 30 31. Yeah. So for like the next three years if I’m a contender, I call the Celtics every 3 weeks to see what’s up because I’m just like this guy would fit and this guy would make sense. Um regardless like there’s contenders are made up of a bunch of different teams. Like there’s the Thunder, the Pacers, the Celtics. We’re a contender obviously. The Knicks, the Nuggets, the the Timberwolves. It’s like who doesn’t white fit on? There isn’t a team. So if I’m a contender, regardless of my makeup, I call every three weeks to be like, “What’s up?” Until until, you know, Brad blocks my number. I’m just trying to see I’m just trying to see what’s going on. Well, that’s evidently how they handled it this off season. I understand that. But there will come a time, I think, where they’re going to have to heavily consider what they can get back for. Brown, I think less so, just because it’s 50 million and I think there’s a small number of teams that can make it happen and actually give you value back for that kind of thing. Um, but white again, I think you could start a bidding war between five to 10 teams potentially to just get this haul of a return. And it broke my heart when they got him, man. I wanted the Raptors to get him and they got him. I couldn’t believe it, man. Oh, it’s still amazing and it’s one of the great trades ever, I think, cuz you you think of where they were when they were making it and then where they ended up for the next three, four years. I mean there was there was a world where it becomes a dynasty and certainly there were a number of reasons that didn’t end up working out this year to go back to back but he did his part and you know health and some other stuff prevented them from becoming that. So is he part of what’s next? I think that’s a real question here and you know that is the last question I got for you with Boston here is like what is the pathway to what’s next? Is is it just Brown and Tatum continuing to get better once they’re back from these injuries? Is it drafting? Is it making some savvy trades? Cuz even, let’s say the roster’s in the same place next year and it’s just Tatum coming back. That’s not going to be good enough to win a championship. That’s Yeah, I think they they can help themselves obviously with some moves on the margins. Um like the white move is great. Another move on the margins that obviously helped another team is like and it was at the Celtics expense is like N Smith going to the Pacers there. There are always guys available that you can kind of rebuild and reshape your I mean Pritchard it’s not like he was a super high pick but he’s obviously very impactful. Whether you believe he can step into a starting lineup role and really win or whether you’d prefer being him coming off the bench, I don’t know. But I it’s tough to consider what a Jaylen Brown trade looks like. I don’t think that there’s a ton of appetite around the league for like bringing Jaylen Brown in, what it would cost that intersection. I think that the teams that made the most sense, I just don’t think ever got interested in enough in it because San Antonio could have moved too. I think you’ll listen for that plus some future picks. Uh Houston could have did what they did for Durant for him and went with Durant even though he’s like 37 or whatever he is at this point. Um I’m trying to think like is there one more team maybe? I mean Toronto could have, right? Like if they really wanted to there and I don’t think that was ever significant thing they were interested in. So yeah, there’s just not a team out there that screams we need Jaylen and we got to be super aggressive to do it. maybe Brooklyn when they finally decide to cash in on all these assets, but that’s going to be down the line in quite a ways. Yeah. When I when I think about it has to be towards the end of his contract, probably the last two years, and a team is like, you know what, let’s go get him and and see cuz right now you’d be you’re bringing him in as like probably the number one piece for your team. And if not, and for Boston, their power still to me is Tatum and Brown. like having those two guys, their interchangeability, their dynamic. They don’t play supernaturally off each other, but just the combined size, skill set, and width of their impact keeps them in play to make the playoffs at the very least every single year. And then from there, you see what happens. Yeah. Basically, the Celtics need they need to find their way to a quality center and they and they need probably like a one more wing on the team. If they can do that in the next three years, then having the same structure will work because Tatum and Brown is and and Derek White presumably at the very end of his prime. that’s going to put you in a position to to win games and honestly some ingenuity from their coach changing play styles, what advantages can be gained. Um, that’s a real aspect of this, too. Like the Pacers, I know everyone started talking about like the it’s not about the strong link, but the weak link and how they play and everything like that. It it was really important that the Pacers had depth, but also their play style was really important, too. And they got really great performances. this if the Celtics like they didn’t play very well and and Tatum got injured. If the Celtics play really well this past season, they still have the potential to be champions and coming back and you know once Tatum is back and if they keep the same team and find like a a decent front court option, then a good like a really good playoff performance, it might warrant them being in the finals. it might warrant them being there because they are operating from such a position of strength with Tatum and Brown and then guys like White hovering around that. Maybe Pritchard becomes something, maybe Simons becomes something. I don’t know. But yeah, it’s uh there’s still upside with the team. It’s just injuries suck, that’s all. Yep. For both these teams. And man, make sure you appreciate that East Finals. We watched these Pacers and Celtics play a couple years ago and that was an alltime competitive series. Maybe the best sweep ever, you know, quality of playwise. That first game, man. Oh my days. Jaylen, what a shot. Yeah. And we missed out on the rematch last year, which would have been fun. And especially with Boston playing at their peak, but they were never really able to sustain that last year and um repeat what they did the same way for various reasons. So, last question I got for you. With Pacers down, with Celtics down, who’s going to fill that fill that gap and take over the East this year? Who do you see coming out of the East now? Um, after those two teams won it the last two years, I’m still a believer in the Cavaliers. I really like that team. You think this is their time finally? Yeah. I I don’t like I understand the Knicks have a spot. the Bucks. I like as somebody who covered the Pacers, Miles Turner is Miles Turner is really healthy for how the Pacers wanted to play his skill set, but like his defense is just not at the level that I think people think it is. And offensively, Turner is a good center, but I don’t think Turner cuz they waved Dame and they they effectively pay Turner like it take to make that happen. They pay like $50 million. I don’t think that and Giannis is obviously great, but I don’t think it’ll be the Bucks coming out. The the Pacers and the Celtics are the two other teams I would consider. The Knicks, I think the Knicks or the Cavs, probably. And I would go with the Cavs because I am a really big believer in their guard creation and Mobly could take another step this year. I just they they make sense to me. The Cavs. So Moi’s everything for me and he’s not a super compelling character personality around the league. I don’t think a lot of people think about Moy fans rather. To me last year though it’s like okay he’s scratching the surface of what I think he can become and that’s one of the best players in the league. And there was an alldefense uh you know defensive player of the year ceiling he showed on that end. But on offense they started having him bring the ball up the floor and he’s stepping in the threes and he’s you know creating offense for them and he’s part of that cutting scheme you described earlier. Like to me there were moments last year and it happened very slowly like you sort of saw him going through it methodically and it didn’t look super natural but he is starting to creep into star territory on offense and when that becomes natural and when those decisions happen quicker for him and when he becomes the hub of what they’re doing offensively and I think that’s there for him like I think he’s that smart and that skilled there’s you know I don’t know if this is still going to be the version of that Cavs team when he gets to that level. But if he can get there sooner rather than later, there still is a championship in play for Cleveland. But, you know, it’s still the Mitchell show Garland. I think there’s a lot of turbulence with his game on both ends of the floor that I’ve never been super crazy about, especially come playoff time, you know, when you become a target. I love Garland. I love I love Garland. He’s killed them in some playoff situations. Um, this Yeah, Allen’s playing the five there. So, Mob’s still not quite their five. So, like there’s so much talent there and the coaching was amazing last year and they had this awesome season, but I still feel like this isn’t the final version of what Moy in particular is going to be. Because to me, the only player there who’s like, “All right, this guy can bring us to a championship, even as great as Mitchell is, um, and he is great, is the that finished version of Moy.” And I’m like obsessing over this because I’m such a fan of his game. I loved him coming into the draft and I’ve loved that slow development that’s almost happened under the radar there in Cleveland because again he’s not the superstar personality. He’s a big man and he’s not like one of these perimeter wings that people are like buying jerseys of and all that but man like he’s got it and I see it happening and when it happens people are going to be like whoa like where’d this come from? I I do I agree with you that there’s a lot of upside there. I think he doesn’t have to. I think for a championship he would have to reach that but to win the Eastern Conference I don’t think he would have to. I think they could come out of the Eastern Conference that they just have to play well and be healthy really. Yeah. And like Garland obviously his one playoff run was tough. This one I don’t want to dock him for it cuz he actually he had to get surgery on his foot. But he and Donovan are so creative out of the back court and they’re still like you can it’s easy to suggest that Garland could improve. if he’s still young. It’s really easy to suggest that Mobley could improve. There’s no reason for Donovan or Jarrett to fall off like that team in a in a conference where a lot of guys while a lot of injuries and a lot of teams had to reshuffle, they’re just still there and just really good. But I still probably would be like uh Thunder, Nuggets, Wolves, all those teams I would probably pick over the Cavs. But yeah, and definite like they they did the whole cororo for ball thing which I didn’t love. I I don’t know what ball is left at this point and he was fun last year but like on a team that wasn’t that good. It’ll be interesting to see him on an important team. Yeah. And you know he if he can even just scratch the surface of becoming the old ball which again it’s it was so long ago he was there that you’re like all right this is a really nice piece and and part of what we’re doing here. and he doesn’t have to do a ton obviously right when they’re healthy. But um you know I’m trying to think of who else is still on that roster too because they lost Ty Jerome. Um I like Jaylen Tyson. I hope he can start playing a little bit this year. Strus is great. Merryill’s still there. He’ll have to take on a bigger role. Dean Wade’s still there who’s a great defender. And then of course they got Hunter who I thought was phenomenal. So I mean this team’s stacked with depth. And again it’s a depth game now. So I like they don’t come out of the East. They have to look in the mirror, man. like they they they played the Pacers who were like the Pacers weren’t the odds on favorite to win any series and they comfortably took care of quite a few teams. So like the Pacers were just underrated, but they got their licks in. Come back this year. You’re like, “Okay, we played a team that could have won a championship. The Pacers were close. Now we learned something. Let’s come back.” But if the Cavs don’t come out of the East, man, they really have to look in the mirror. There’s something wrong. I know. It’ll be devastating. And I’ll feel bad for them, the fans, all that, cuz like they have everything they need, honestly. And it’s time. Like the opportunity is here. All the excuses and competition and all that are out the window. I know Garland’s hurt to start the year, but hopefully he’ll be all right. So, I mean, there is no reason it shouldn’t be them. Um, when you just look at what they have here. So, uh, they’re going to have to do it. And they should be considered the favorite for sure. And I don’t have any, uh, disagreement with that. I like the Magic a lot, too, but I think they have a lot more questions than the Knicks and the Cavs do, especially on offense as they try to figure out some stuff there. But appreciate uh you stopping by here. Always a joy to talk basketball with you. Um I think you’re one of the best doing it. And again, Raptors coverage. You got it over there at Raptors Republic. Um you’re going to be doing some Pacer stuff again this year. Is it in the cards? Yeah, I know. like the I made the joke about Rick Carlile replacing me on the podcast, but uh Caitlyn and I will do lots of Pacers work this upcoming year. Well, I can’t I can’t get Caitlyn on the pod here anymore. She’s she’s a superstar. We used to have her all the time. Well, she’s uh she’s I haven’t had Caitlyn on my podcast in a long time. She’s just busy, you know? Yeah, that’s that’s what happens. Like you you just you just get busy, man. It’s like such a busy I mean it’s amazing. I know Rick was saying that um teams were calling her and you know all these different people wanted to have her work for them. Um you know as these TV networks get going and you know different like broadcast right like I’d love to listen to her on a game like I think like she’d be perfect color commentary on NBC like you know that should happen and fortunately we’re able to get her work um you know on the Patreon there. That was when we were when we were covering the finals like that was the the Doris Burke story, right? Like we were going in uh to the offices and everything and Doris and uh RJ and Mike Breen had just done like a one-on-one with Rick and so we were walking in and Doris was like, “Whoa.” She was like, “Oh my god.” She’s like, “I watch every single episode of you guys.” She’s all excited. And then she asked Caitlyn, she’s like, “What do you want to do? Do you want to do broadcasting? Do you want to do coaching? Like what?” It was like in that moment Doris Burke was like, “Can I put you on a broadcast?” It was just um she wants you. you were there in the finals knowing like you know Tyrese like is a fan and like consumes that like I think the whole team the whole organization is like how does it feel knowing that like you know NBA personnel NBA players are you know going to your stuff throughout the playoffs there and watching what you guys are doing and just like consuming that. Well, it’s cool. We actually knew before that obviously like we it is crazy to think that head coaches of like it’s not just Rick who watches the podcast or reads the stuff like head coaches of other teams do and like scouts of other teams do. As crazy as that sounds, um it’s not just players, it’s like personnel and it’s uh it it was cool. Like everyone from like Zack Low down like all of these like writers hall of fame level people are coming up and telling us like we think you do such a great job. It was like the players, the media, the coaches, everyone was really excited about our analysis which was uh really neat. Obviously like it’s cool when it happens in public because you talk to players obviously know but when Tai like Tyrese Hallebertton has given me love and Pascal’s giving me love it’s like oh this is cool because like you don’t want to be a loser and talk about and be like well you know but if they do it in front of cameras then everyone can see it. So it was just it was cool to have so many people express like appreciation for the work but I’ll say like so much of that just goes to Caitlyn. I’m a co-host. Yes. and I do the work. Yes. But Caitlyn is definitely her analysis leads us. Yeah, absolutely. And I shut it out all the time, but um go subscribe to Basketball She Wrote and again check out um Samson’s work over on Raptors Republic and uh you can find him at on Twitter at Sam Folk Folk K. So appreciate you stopping by here and we will be back I hope this time for real next week after a bunch of shows to start this week. But uh to recap if you missed it, we talked Chris Buché a ton at the start of the pod what he’s going to bring to Boston and obviously to clear the way for that. The Celtics traded George Nang to Utah. That’s it for us here for Samson Folk. I’m Bobby Manning. This has been a Wednesday edition of the Garden Report. We’ll talk to you sometime next week and peace. No one’s sneaking a vegan brownie by me. I’ll tell you that. Okay, you know what, John? We’re gonna do it. You have to feel that way, too, Bobby. I have to feel that way. Let’s fight Al over and and make Luke your first center. Bobby, we gave you Luke hour earlier. We are not going to end this on a damn conversation about Luke.

Bobby Manning welcomes Raptors reporter Samson Folk from Raptors Republic to talk about what former Toronto big man Chris Boucher brings to the Celtics after joining them on a minimum contract on Tuesday. Then, they discuss the Pacers’ NBA Finals run and how Indiana and Boston will persevere through their achilles tears.